The Biggest Losers (of Debt): How a Family Shed $106,000 in Debt

[shabam]

I think it's totally understandable for anyone that is sick to file. They have their health to worry about rather than debt. Health care as a whole is a huge mess. What is so frustrating about filing for bk due to medical costs is that the health insurance companies never lose. It's only the doctors and medical facilities that end up out of pocket. While I'm not sick and do not have medical expenses, knock on wood, the quick way to anger me is to suggest that you are against the reform. That warrants being thrown out of my house.

[BKOnce]

We were hard on this path when DH got laid off and we lost our health insurance and youngest spent a week in the hospital without insurance. I wish more than anything that we hadn't gotten hit with that and we would have been able to finish paying off the debt like this family.

However, that being said, it sounds like they used credit counseling which would have reduced their debt to a point so it wasn't probably actually 106 thousand that they paid off.

Probably so, but I think the reason they could commit to do it because the family is healthy strong. The Yahoo picture shows husband has big & healthy body, wife stay home and no major disease, and kids are also smiling healthy so they don't have any major medical debts and he can work overtime day & night saving without falling down (except sleepy head only) so to gradually pay off debts. But this might not be possible with other people/family who are either weak, sick, or have major surgery/cancer/disease, etc. They have to give up for example.

[needachance]

We were hard on this path when DH got laid off and we lost our health insurance and youngest spent a week in the hospital without insurance. I wish more than anything that we hadn't gotten hit with that and we would have been able to finish paying off the debt like this family.

However, that being said, it sounds like they used credit counseling which would have reduced their debt to a point so it wasn't probably actually 106 thousand that they paid off.

[shabam]

So no one should have to suffer any consequences for their own irresponsible actions? Someone has to pay for their debt. Why should I have to make sacrifices with my family so that the person who created his own mess doesn't have to? I think he did place his family first. The example these people set for their children is priceless. They showed them how to take responsibility, budget their finances and live within their means. They had the means to pay back the debt and that's what they did.

To question this man's character because he paid back the money he borrowed rather than dump it off on the rest of us is appalling. That type of attitude is one of the reasons our economy is in the dump. It's no different than the attitude of the big bad bankers who lined their pockets at our expense. Please don't be so naive as to think that defaulting on your debt to the bank is sticking it to the bank. That's just not the way it works.

Well said and I totally agree. Anyone who thinks they are sticking it to the bank or that they are some sort of financial guru by filing bk is dead wrong and foolish. For me, bk was the absolute last resort. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and has their own reasons and unique situation but we should never assume that by filing for bk we are doing anyone a favor excluding ourselves. The well they're doing it so should I attitude is not my style.

The $54 billion quoted earlier as being discharged in bk comes out of someones' pocket. Be it a retiree or someone we know. Whether people admit it or not, everyone who handed their homes back inevitably affected their neighbors and their community's prices. We had someone post a few weeks back that they're trying to figure out how to keep a car because their child likes it. The person who paid their debt off is a champ. I wish I was able to do so myself and never even filed for ch 7.

Statistically speaking most people who file for Bk once, will file again. Now I see why.

[nc73]

We really don't know what their motivation was. It could be that they have no idea what life after bankruptcy is like. If the family had all the facts would they have done what they did? I think they would have filed if they knew all the facts. The bankruptcy system is there to help people get out of debt. Some abuse it and some have no other options. My point is, they made the decision to pay. Was it the wisest decision? Probably not. Look at all the banks getting their bailout. Why don't we deserve one?

In any case the guy was working in the wee hours and didn't get much sleep just so he could pay off his debt. that's really dangerous if he happens to be driving afterwards. He's putting everyone in danger when he goes on the road without sufficient sleep. Bankruptcy was designed to get us out of debt without putting ourselves through hard times.

[hereforinfo]

Stupid indeed. I even would go as far as to question the character of the father. Not in the fact that he was trying to pay the bills, but that he spend all of his time trying to obtain that dollar or asleep. What about the time he should have been spending with his wife and kids?

My version of character means placing your family first.

So no one should have to suffer any consequences for their own irresponsible actions? Someone has to pay for their debt. Why should I have to make sacrifices with my family so that the person who created his own mess doesn't have to? I think he did place his family first. The example these people set for their children is priceless. They showed them how to take responsibility, budget their finances and live within their means. They had the means to pay back the debt and that's what they did.

To question this man's character because he paid back the money he borrowed rather than dump it off on the rest of us is appalling. That type of attitude is one of the reasons our economy is in the dump. It's no different than the attitude of the big bad bankers who lined their pockets at our expense. Please don't be so naive as to think that defaulting on your debt to the bank is sticking it to the bank. That's just not the way it works.

[cleanslate01]

What a coincidence. I am sitting here going through a sea of collection notices and trying to make sure all our debts on accounted for with the lawyer. As I sift through all the payment plans, credit counseling programs, etc., I was struck by just HOW MUCH we spent to try to get out of debt just to wind up in BK. If I had only filed 3 years ago... I pumped tens of thousands of dollars to save a house we wound up losing. I sent countless payments to credit cards only to have them turn around and continue to raise rates. Sad. I admire them for their efforts but man...

[MiSSMaGoo]

yeah i agree. Although it's still admirable. Stupid but admirable.

lol!

[MiSSMaGoo]

Actually, its kinda sad.

Just think where they would be if they had file BK at the time, made those changes, and SAVED that extra money.

I agree too!

[banca rotta]

This is the best part of the post as far as I am concerned:

"If the money wasn't available, they simply did without."



I read it twice because I think I missed what their income was. As HHM mentioned comparing 90k to 25k, how much household income was involved? Of course anyone can pay off this kind of debt if they had the income.

Sorry to keep the "us, them" politcal discussion going but depending upon who the creditor was, there is no way I could ever become a slave to the current banking system with everything they have done. If I owed this money to a friend, relative or local small community bank in a town where everyone knows one another I would be more inclined to work with the creditors.

The large banking cartel would be a different story.


This sort of thing is very rare too because as we see in the chapter 13 section too many things happen in a 5 year period that will throw you off course. I'm not being negative and saying it can't be done, this is just part of life.

[BKOnce]

Here are the reasons why. Money is only trade. Your time for a token to purchase other peoples time. It is used to be a tool. Although honorable for this family to work the miracle they have, but they lost time as well as money for pride.

The "person" who caused me to lose 190K and my health, did only make money his whole life. He became a multi-millionaire. The quintessential "Scrooge". He lived a poverty life, collecting properties and numbers. He lived like Howard Hughes at the end of his life. So, he never helped another person with his wealth. He was too cheap to have a family, and disclaimed his only son of seven weeks marriage in 1959. He thought his poverty a virtue as he lived this way on purpose. Yet, he has millions. In his meanness, he ruined many people as was his way of non-ethical business. He was a usurious fool. On April fools day of this year, he had a massive coronary, a ten hour operation, and total loss of kidney function. After his quad bypass, the mini-strokes that come at times with such an operation, he has lost his whits about him. What a waste of resources in his greed for money. It is not known if he has a will or to whom he will pass his fortune. I hope it will go to better use than the collector of numbers used it for.

Now for what use is money? It is a tool. Not to bring happiness, but to enhance it. Borrowing other peoples money brings fast but cheap satisfaction. Like a narcotic, it takes more for the "high" in gathering "things". But then, you are subservient to the lender.

We have never been as happy 'broke' as when we would buy anything we wished. We have our health (so far) and each other. That is what really counts, not a bank ledger. 'Hub

KARMA is... a bietch!!

[AngelinaCatHub]

Money is about the most useless commodity we have.

Here are the reasons why. Money is only trade. Your time for a token to purchase other peoples time. It is used to be a tool. Although honorable for this family to work the miracle they have, but they lost time as well as money for pride.

The "person" who caused me to lose 190K and my health, did only make money his whole life. He became a multi-millionaire. The quintessential "Scrooge". He lived a poverty life, collecting properties and numbers. He lived like Howard Hughes at the end of his life. So, he never helped another person with his wealth. He was too cheap to have a family, and disclaimed his only son of seven weeks marriage in 1959. He thought his poverty a virtue as he lived this way on purpose. Yet, he has millions. In his meanness, he ruined many people as was his way of non-ethical business. He was a usurious fool. On April fools day of this year, he had a massive coronary, a ten hour operation, and total loss of kidney function. After his quad bypass, the mini-strokes that come at times with such an operation, he has lost his whits about him. What a waste of resources in his greed for money. It is not known if he has a will or to whom he will pass his fortune. I hope it will go to better use than the collector of numbers used it for.

Now for what use is money? It is a tool. Not to bring happiness, but to enhance it. Borrowing other peoples money brings fast but cheap satisfaction. Like a narcotic, it takes more for the "high" in gathering "things". But then, you are subservient to the lender.

We have never been as happy 'broke' as when we would buy anything we wished. We have our health (so far) and each other. That is what really counts, not a bank ledger. 'Hub

[ForumReader]

HHM,

I appreciate your perspective and if you had asked me my views before I found myself desperate, I would not have been so forgiving.

I was "raised" to be responsible and never once would have thought I would ever be in a position where I would be filing for bankruptcy nor ever "morally" thinking I would.

I was a CPA and have an MBA in Finance. I was the Director of Planning and Analysis (BUDGETS!!!) for a large company.

I took risks with investments, real property and my career that all went south over a period of 4 years.

And I've suffered and learned.

First, not to judge (except I do judge those who think they "deserve" their lifestyle).

Second, the banks and credit card companies are more guilty than the debtors BECAUSE it is THEIR job to evaluate the creditworthiness of a borrower.

The banks and credit card companies got it WRONG because they used little models (based on credit scores) that were cheap and easy to use instead of really looking at someone's ability to repay.

And when the Banks and Credit card companies went bankrupt, their FRIENDS at the Treasury and Federal Reserve made them WHOLE, even allowing them to keep their jobs and bonuses and so on and so forth on the BACKS of the american taxpayer--and there are fewer of those every year too..

Understanding THAT makes me realize how screwed up the system is.

I wholeheartedly agree with your post. Well said! I wish there was a way anti-credit lobbyists would go to Washington and lobby about the way credit card companies give out credit to consumers based on credit scores, not throughout evaluation of a consumer's ability to pay or how much credit cards a consumer has, etc.

[poorold]

HHM,

I appreciate your perspective and if you had asked me my views before I found myself desperate, I would not have been so forgiving.

I was "raised" to be responsible and never once would have thought I would ever be in a position where I would be filing for bankruptcy nor ever "morally" thinking I would.

I was a CPA and have an MBA in Finance. I was the Director of Planning and Analysis (BUDGETS!!!) for a large company.

I took risks with investments, real property and my career that all went south over a period of 4 years.

And I've suffered and learned.

First, not to judge (except I do judge those who think they "deserve" their lifestyle).

Second, the banks and credit card companies are more guilty than the debtors BECAUSE it is THEIR job to evaluate the creditworthiness of a borrower.

The banks and credit card companies got it WRONG because they used little models (based on credit scores) that were cheap and easy to use instead of really looking at someone's ability to repay.

And when the Banks and Credit card companies went bankrupt, their FRIENDS at the Treasury and Federal Reserve made them WHOLE, even allowing them to keep their jobs and bonuses and so on and so forth on the BACKS of the american taxpayer--and there are fewer of those every year too..

Understanding THAT makes me realize how screwed up the system is.

[HHM]

The amount of unsecured debt discharged in the country, in a year, amounts to LESS THAN 0.75% (for the numbers challenged, that is three quarters of one percent) of the assets under control of the 4 largest banks (Citigroup, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo). Those four banks control over $7 Trillion in assets. Bankruptcy, IS NOT hurting the country.

See this blog for some perspective.

http://askmethner.com/?p=709

endorse people recklessly amassing debt

That is a "fatal" assumption. It was that sort of "assumption" that lead to the 2005 bankruptcy amendments, no one has ever put forth evidence that those who file BK amass their debt recklessly. Just because it is "possible" does not mean it is "reality."

The other issues, regardless, what other option is there. If we did not have bankruptcy to help people get out of debt, what would happen...do you want debtor's prisons. If these people cannot pay their debts, what happens to them, they would probably become a burden on society in a direct way with welfare etc. What I cannot endorse is small mindedness and unfounded assumptions when it comes to this issue.