Barney Frank: U.S. government default likely

[IamOld]

Quite right - but and however - we do have to spend domestically we must cut...elsewhere....

What's crazy is a lot of people are acting as if we currently have "keynesian" economics. It really isn't. It's just bailouts for banksters.

keynesian is just temporary govt stimulus for various projects until we can get the economy moving along. I agree we need the infrastructure rebuilt and it will help so many.

The pickle we are in is that our monetary system is based on debt. Money was once derived from gold and silver. Today it's derived from debt.

We all must go into debt and spend in order to keep the money supply from collapsing. When we all go bankrupt and save money the systems comes crashing down since money is drying up.

To make up for us citizens and small business not spending the govt then goes into debt to keep this thing afloat. Trouble is as this post is stating there's only so much debt the govt can take on before it too hits a brick wall.

While J.M. Keynes was a huge supporter of temp deficit spending he never proposed a nation bankrupt itself and destroy it's currency over non stop stimulus.

[banca rotta]

Look, the white elephant in the room are the wars and defense spending...AND once people are back to work, they will pay taxes, and spend money...very classic Keynsian economics...would still work. Besides the work needs to be done on our bridges, roads, etc etc etc.

What's crazy is a lot of people are acting as if we currently have "keynesian" economics. It really isn't. It's just bailouts for banksters.

keynesian is just temporary govt stimulus for various projects until we can get the economy moving along. I agree we need the infrastructure rebuilt and it will help so many.

The pickle we are in is that our monetary system is based on debt. Money was once derived from gold and silver. Today it's derived from debt.

We all must go into debt and spend in order to keep the money supply from collapsing. When we all go bankrupt and save money the systems comes crashing down since money is drying up.

To make up for us citizens and small business not spending the govt then goes into debt to keep this thing afloat. Trouble is as this post is stating there's only so much debt the govt can take on before it too hits a brick wall.

While J.M. Keynes was a huge supporter of temp deficit spending he never proposed a nation bankrupt itself and destroy it's currency over non stop stimulus.

[jacko]

Totally agree. Gas taxes would need to be raised.

Look, the white elephant in the room are the wars and defense spending...AND once people are back to work, they will pay taxes, and spend money...very classic Keynsian economics...would still work. Besides the work needs to be done on our bridges, roads, etc etc etc.

[IamOld]

Look, the white elephant in the room are the wars and defense spending...AND once people are back to work, they will pay taxes, and spend money...very classic Keynsian economics...would still work. Besides the work needs to be done on our bridges, roads, etc etc etc.

How would you pay for it and get people back to work?

[daylate]

There is more than enough blame to go around. Where did it start? Who knows? Nixon allowing the price of gold to float? Reagan tax cuts and trickle down economics? The push to make housing available for all? Globalization of the economy? Nobody complained when prices went lower due to merchandise being produced overseas at slave labor rates. Clinton and Gingrich working together to balance the budget? (Seems they should get at least a very small portion of the blame if not a pass), allowing banks to become more than banks? Bush tax cuts and two wars? The internet bubble and subsequent crash? The housing fiasco? Obama for not taking advantage of his victory to push an agenda that was truly bipartisan but instead letting at the time a Democratic Congress set the agenda which led to the rise of the Tea Party. Mean spirited partisan politics,where compromise is a dirty word? Fox news? Michael Moore (why not)?

The point is we cannot default on our debt. It would be catastrophic to say the least. The way the global financial system is tied together, it is all funny money anyway so whats another 5 or 10 trillion between friends and enemies? If the Tea Party Republicans get their way, at least we will be rid of them in two years. What really pisses me off is the my way or the highway approach taken by politicians (and pundits) of all ilk. If there is a way out of this mess, and I'm not sure there is one, compromise and moderation has to be the way to go.

[jacko]

How would you pay for it and get people back to work?

I know we may disagree on this - which is ok!!! - it's not gov'ts size that is the problem, it is what it spends its(our) money on - my preference would be to help homeowners, fix our infrastructure, put people back to work, etc.

[IamOld]

I know we may disagree on this - which is ok!!! - it's not gov'ts size that is the problem, it is what it spends its(our) money on - my preference would be to help homeowners, fix our infrastructure, put people back to work, etc.

I agree! We need to not only bash Obama, but we must also bash Bernanke, Congress (including and especially McCain), Geithner, Hillary and the millions of people that want a bigger more expensive and intrusive govt.

Obama cannot destroy America by himself. He needs help from his own team and his supporters.

[IamOld]

May I humbly suggest that if you can - and haven't seen this - watch Too Big To Fail on HBO - excellent excellent movie about the 2008 "crisis" in finance - excellent acting - my only criticism is that they show Hank Paulson in an almost sympathetic light... EXCELLENT movie guys.

[shark66]

jacko wrote:

If Bibi doesn't change course, Israel will eventually get the same treatment that South Africa got for pursuing Apartheid.

I'm fairly certain that I'd have a better chance of surviving a free-style jump from the Empire State Building than seeing Israel in that spot in my lifetime...and I intend to be around for at least another quarter of the century...

houston 7 wrote:

There are people here (myself included) that view 'Hub as a racist. That is our opinion.


And there are also people on this forum - myself included - who are getting extremely sick and tired of the race card being pulled every single time someone criticizes Obama...here, there and everywhere...

Good luck to us all.

[houston7]

What a surprise, two-thirds of the "pick on hub" triumvirate (where's whatmoney?) are picking on 'hub.
Diversity of opinion is the cry (as long as there's no diversity, and the opinion agrees with you).

Maybe the reason we are "picking on him" is because we know bullshit when we see it. For the longest time he would post stating "that's the way it is", or some form of that. It wasn't until he was called on it that he began to change his style. Next, it appears that you are okay with him having an opinion but not okay with people who call him on it.

There are people here (myself included) that view 'Hub as a racist. That is our opinion.

Frankly, someone who blames our entire economic situation on Obama isn't seeing the whole picture. Also, anyone who thinks it's possible to clean up this mess in 2 1/2 years is delusional. Even Reagan didn't start making progress cleaning up the recession of the early 80's until almost his 3rd year. And that was without having to compete with the global market.

In the spirit of "opinions" 'Hub is free to bash on Obama.

And we are free to call him on it.

[banca rotta]

I agree with Jacko on this. 'Hub, the majority of your posts consist of bashing Obama. Where you lose credibility is when you fail to acknowledge that he inherited this mess AND, is takes a hell of a lot longer than 2 1/2 years to fix it.

I agree! We need to not only bash Obama, but we must also bash Bernanke, Congress (including and especially McCain), Geithner, Hillary and the millions of people that want a bigger more expensive and intrusive govt.

Obama cannot destroy America by himself. He needs help from his own team and his supporters.

[keepinitreal]

What a surprise, two-thirds of the "pick on hub" triumvirate (where's whatmoney?) are picking on 'hub.
Diversity of opinion is the cry (as long as there's no diversity, and the opinion agrees with you).

[houston7]

When you pursue personal attacks, you invite them on to yourself as well. Your post makes no sense and is all factually incorrect. Your hatred of the President is loud and clear, which is due to his looking different and having a non traditional American name. I know your type and deal with them on a daily basis. Their world has turned upside down. Did not plan for retirement and mainly will depend on SS. They need to blame someone. The United States has not had a balanced budget since 2000. So why all religious now? 57% of the Israeli public supports the Presidents plan on the 67 borders. If Bibi doesn't change course, Israel will eventually get the same treatment that South Africa got for pursuing Apartheid. So you must hate the Palestinians to.

I agree with Jacko on this. 'Hub, the majority of your posts consist of bashing Obama. Where you lose credibility is when you fail to acknowledge that he inherited this mess AND, is takes a hell of a lot longer than 2 1/2 years to fix it.

[MSbklawyer]

For chrissakes, will you people please get the man's name right? It's BONNIE, not Barney. And it's FWANK, not FRANK. That's the way he pronounces it and I would think the man would know his own name.

BONNIE FWANK. Got it?

[jacko]

When you pursue personal attacks, you invite them on to yourself as well. Your post makes no sense and is all factually incorrect. Your hatred of the President is loud and clear, which is due to his looking different and having a non traditional American name. I know your type and deal with them on a daily basis. Their world has turned upside down. Did not plan for retirement and mainly will depend on SS. They need to blame someone. The United States has not had a balanced budget since 2000. So why all religious now? 57% of the Israeli public supports the Presidents plan on the 67 borders. If Bibi doesn't change course, Israel will eventually get the same treatment that South Africa got for pursuing Apartheid. So you must hate the Palestinians to.

LOL, how queer is that idea for self and spouse to be in the position to call shots that would benefit both? (also no pun intended).

We are now into our 2 1/2 years without the budget of two and 1/2 years approved, for that year no less for our current year. Our Ruler, has ignored Constitutional law and is getting away with it. His only talent is Public speaking and good eyes reading a machine. He is not ignorant of what is going on. He is an orchestrator. His ego equates to a sickness, as he feels his fine words, he can heal all things, and brilliant unless his machine is not near. His plan for change is working and we truly are changing, while hope is decreasing. Rome lasted roughly around the same time frame as the USA has been around. They perished due to "bread and circuses". That statement means Rome became lazy, had slaves to do real work, became what is called decedent. It too became a welfare state and the economy hit the sewers. The leader of Israel snipped Obama's testosterone nodes as that man is a REAL leader. He sees through the path of the intended future as his fellow Israelites have seen this before in the late 30's.

One of Histories infamous despots came into power due to hyperinflation and money manipulations.

Those who cannot see what is going on, are blinded by a closed mind. 'There is no one who is blinder than one who will not see'.

This BTW is my opinion on a forum thread that is made for personal opinion. I reserve my right to my opinion, and respect opinion that I do not agree with. I am neither Republican, or Democrat. I am a registered Democrat due to local voting biases in my county. I am a Constitutionalist more near being a Libertarian, yet not in agreement with them either. This disclaimer is here due to individuals who have not always respected others not in agreement with them. More to come. 'Hub