A year after financial crisis, the consumer economy is dead

[BigJohn]

It's not the deflationary economy that is scaring me so much as the threat of hyper-inflation in the near future.

I watch the silver market and the Mexican peso exchange rate.

Silver has been making huge leaps whereas the Mexican peso has been very stable. When I see the number of pesos increase dramatically in exchange foe the dollar, I start to really get worried.

[LDL]

Good post!

I was just talking to a friend about this earlier today. Wages are actually much lower for me and many others nowadays compared to ~20 yrs ago . Daily I look at a variety of jobs and pay on Craigslist and numerous other job websites and I'm seeing a great number of jobs that pay ~ $8/9 an hr and expect you to run the company. 20 yrs ago I made $16 an hr and had better health insurance and bennies to boot. Home prices were lower, as well as gas, food and utilities.

Good paying jobs and benefits have left the building for the majority of Americans and I highly doubt that they will be coming back any time soon (jmho) !

It's a fact that real wages have been decreasing for decades when you look at the median person. Real wages are measured by taking into account things like inflation as well as earning numbers. The average person now earns less than say 1955 if you go by real wages.

Much of the lifestyle has been fueled by credit. That worked out very well for the people who could profit from interest. They got richer. Of course the house of cards started falling a little while ago.

I don't want to get into a anecdotal political discussion but my father right out of high school landed a welding job. No college required. Within a few years he earned near $80,000 a year in todays wages by working overtime. My mother likewise landed a job which paid over $12 an hour shortly out of high school in the late 60's or early 70's.

These days few kids have $80,000 factory jobs. And those who do have jobs which pay well like that often had to go to college and go into massive debt taking risk. Many with loans such that there is almost no possible way to have relief from -- even if they never make over $12 an hour in their entire life. Even bankruptcy wilol not free them. I am one of these people.

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[hereforinfo]

Europe isn't a country. The article you linked to is comparing regions. The US is still considered the wealthiest country, even when comparing AuM as in the article.

When looking at GDP estimates, the US is also way ahead of the pack at $14 trillion, followed by Japan $4.9 trillion and China $4.8 trillion.

[IBroke]

I actually heard this on the radio the other day. The key words here are "North America" and "Europe".

When done by continent, Europe has a slight edge over NA. When done by country it's still the USA.

NA includes socialist Canada and drug cartel infested Mexico.
USA still rocks But we can only pray it doesn't become Mexico.

Well, Europe has the EU that has its own parliament with laws just like a country and what does US mean? 'United States'...so also, quite a bunch.

What's really an eye opener is how much wealth was burned so far:

The wealth in North America declined a whopping 21,8% - and that was mainly OUR wealth and not the wealth in Canada and Mexico..unfortunately

Europe "only" lost 5,8%, so you can see where this is going.

We all have to keep in mind that wealth in this country has to be earned and that the title "wealthiest country" does not belong to us forever...unless we defend it.

[banca rotta]

Sorry, but that claim isn't valid any more.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1253...googlenews_wsj

We had a lot more - and lost a lot more.

I actually heard this on the radio the other day. The key words here are "North America" and "Europe".

When done by continent, Europe has a slight edge over NA. When done by country it's still the USA.

NA includes socialist Canada and drug cartel infested Mexico.
USA still rocks But we can only pray it doesn't become Mexico.

[IBroke]

I'm not sure what America you've been living in but in my America more people have more than anyone in any country and at any time in our country's history. We earn a lot more than our fathers and grandfathers earned and have the possessions to prove it.

Sorry, but that claim isn't valid any more.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1253...googlenews_wsj

We had a lot more - and lost a lot more.

[kornellred]

Th famous (or infamous) economist John Maynard Keynes is alleged to have declared that "in the long run, we are all dead"

"The Economy" is just life's way of dealing with this realization. There are no solutions - it's all egotistical posturing, smoke and mirrors. Some people have everything. A great many have nothing. And the rest of us are on the edge, buffeted by forces over which we have no control.

Life. It's the only game in town.

[debtprison]

Of course it doesn't apply in every situation. It's simply what I see as being a trend in our society and the general consequences.

I'm not religious so I'm not interested in the link you posted. I'm also not perfect, I'm human and I have opinions and sometimes pass judgment. I will not apologize for that.

I'm not particularly religious either, though a little spiritual. While the link starts off with a quote from a religious figure the rest is mostly rather secular. It really is a pretty good read. No need to apologize or anything.

[hereforinfo]

Of course it doesn't apply in every situation. It's simply what I see as being a trend in our society and the general consequences.

I'm not religious so I'm not interested in the link you posted. I'm also not perfect, I'm human and I have opinions and sometimes pass judgment. I will not apologize for that.

[debtprison]

That's because these days no one wants to work the overtime or make the sacrifices your parents made. Back then if someone wanted to further their education, they worked nights and weekends and did whatever it took to pay for it and keep food on the table. They didn't take vacations and buy expensive cars they couldn't afford. They had a lot less free time.

Now no one wants to make those sacrifices. Instead, everyone feels entitled. Why work overtime to pay for that expensive tv when you can just charge it? Why work a second job to help pay for health insurance when you can just put your kids on the state plan for free? Who cares if someone else has to make sacrifices so you don't have to? It's all "me, me, me" and so many people in our society feel entitled to stuff without having to earn it or sacrifice for it. Personal responsibility is gone with the wind. You can see it all over the place where people complain that it's the bank's fault they can't pay back the loan.

Kids nowadays borrow as much as the banks will give them to pay for college, living expenses, and partying while in school. Starbucks, nice cars, expensive spring break trips, and luxury apartments off campus are the norm now. There's no such thing as a struggling college student anymore. They live the high life in college and then they live like a poor student when they graduate because of the loan payments. There are parents who have nothing saved for retirement, but bankrupt themselves trying to pay for their college kids' apartments and new cars because God forbid the kids actually live at home and commute to a local campus. Then who will have to foot the bill when those parents are destitute because they're too old to work and didn't save for retirement? Certainly not the children who've been given everything and convinced they are entitled. They've never had to make sacrifices, so why start now? It will be the taxpayers.

I agree with a lot of what you say for some situations but I don't think it applies universally. I think we should be careful about that.

I found an interesting read: http://scatteredrainbows.wordpress.c...udging-others/

Perhaps it is a sort of a good dampening factor to your post.

[backtoschool]

I feel this subject on bailouts and stimulus are a matter of opinions and no one on either side of this can back it up with any facts. Just opinions and guesses.

Example, Obama and Biden discussed all the jobs they "saved" because of it. There is no way to prove this.

Even if it did work all they did was kick the can down the road with our ever growing national debt and a potential currency crisis in the future.

I'm kind of on the fence. I'm wondering if we are better off with a few years of the current sluggish deflationary economy or a national fiscal crisis. Like it or not we will have to cope with one or the other.

It's not the deflationary economy that is scaring me so much as the threat of hyper-inflation in the near future.

[banca rotta]

If it weren't for the bail out, and various stimulus plans that were injected into the economy, matters would be significantly worse off right now and take even longer to recover. You have to keep in perspective the size of the US economy alone...nothing is going to fix the economy over night. A lot of effective and fundamental action has been implemented to ignite the economy again. Don't forget the global economy tanked, thus resulting in it taking even more time for everyone to actually realize economic improvement in the economy. No person on earth has a silver bullet to fix the mess the country is in. lol

I feel this subject on bailouts and stimulus are a matter of opinions and no one on either side of this can back it up with any facts. Just opinions and guesses.

Example, Obama and Biden discussed all the jobs they "saved" because of it. There is no way to prove this.

Even if it did work all they did was kick the can down the road with our ever growing national debt and a potential currency crisis in the future.

I'm kind of on the fence. I'm wondering if we are better off with a few years of the current sluggish deflationary economy or a national fiscal crisis. Like it or not we will have to cope with one or the other.

[BigJohn]

Our so called "recovery" is just market manipulation. The crisis is not over, and the market will crash again.

Banks are still not lending, jobs are being lost, the real estate crisis is spreading to commercial real estate.

The stock market right now is speculative and is divorced from the fundamental of the economy. Sooner or later, the stock market will have to again reflect what is really going on, and then we will see a 6000 dow again.

No recovery; just look under the rug.

[banca rotta]

Yes, but that's being funded by credit cards and, during the housing boom, HELOCs. It's true that people have a lot more material possessions but there is also a lot more debt.

The more government programs we have, the more people feel entitled to stuff. There is no longer a clear distinction between wants and needs. Everyone needs everything and no one wants to be inconvenienced. For example, you see all the time on this board people charging a new laptop right before filing bankruptcy and others chime in to say "It's ok - you need a computer." Well that may be true that a computer is necessary to do a lot of things nowadays, but you can always go to the library and use one for free. Or you can buy a cheap, second hand desktop. No one needs a shiny new laptop with all the bells and whistles.

As long as you buy it 91 days prior to filing it's ok.


Just kidding for all the newbies. DON'T DO IT!!!

[backtoschool]

I try to be an optimist but I have to agree with this one. Absolutly nothing changed in 12 months except there's no signs of panic (yet) as opposed to a year ago today.

Our so called "recovery" is just market manipulation. The crisis is not over, and the market will crash again.

Banks are still not lending, jobs are being lost, the real estate crisis is spreading to commercial real estate.

The stock market right now is speculative and is divorced from the fundamentals of the economy. Sooner or later, the stock market will have to again reflect what is really going on, and then we will see a 6000 dow again.