respond to 2nd notice of arbitration?

[IOIOIO]

I just got my second notice of arbitration from NAF. I never responded to my first one because, after reading through this forum, I learned that the creditor still needs to get a court judgment to garnish my wages. The arbitration judgment just makes their court case easier.

I just wanted to make sure, though, whether there's any worthwhile response I can make to the notice to delay things as much as possible. Of course, I don't dispute the debt and am resigned to losing the court case eventually, I just want to delay the judgment as long as possible, at every stage possible, with as little pain as possible.

[wingnut]

Yes, check the rules

Hey,

Yes, just send a polite letter back to NAF, and the creditor, stating that you dispute the debt. That will buy some time. If you go to NAF's site, you can download their Code of Procedures.

It is free to dispute the debt, and the dispute doesn't have to be valid in order to delay things a bit. One of my creditors started arbitration in February, and there still hasn't been a hearing yet. 1st, I didn't recognize the creditor (due to a corporate takeover) so I said that I had never done business with that company. The company then had to prove that I did business with them. Once they did that, I realized that the CC company they took over had overstated the amount of money that I owed them. So, I sent something in stating that OK, I realize that I did business with that company, but the amount is too high, because... Then the creditors filed for a couple of extensions in order to get their case in order. Technically I may have inadvertently filed a counter-claim, but I don't know.

As long as the disputes don't seem too frivolous, there are free ways (aside from postage) to delay the process. Last time I checked, my Hearing is scheduled for no later than mid-November. However, this is the 3rd or 4th time NAF has said that!

Best of Luck,

WINGNUT

[IOIOIO]

So I went to do the NAF response and then I noticed that the accounts listed in the "Second Notice of Arbitration" for the two notices don't match either of the accounts in the first notice. That means I never got a first notice. I mentioned that in my response and also just said I couldn't verify the amount or the claimant because the second notice didn't give the claimant's contact information.

Both of my first notices were FedEx'ed by Mann Bracken, but the two second notices list the banks, not a third party collector. It's weird that I got two of each notice, but that they don't match. Plus, I've never gotten a follow-up on either of the Mann Bracken notices. I have the feeling I'll find out some day soon that all arbitrations were decided against me, which doesn't matter much, but if a person wanted to take the arbitration process seriously, it appears to be either dishonest or total chaos.

[wingnut]

Ball rolling...

Hey,

It sounds like you've got the ball rolling. Just wait for letters to come from NAF. Although you should CC correspondence to MB, there is no need to communicate w them directly.

You'll get plenty of opportunities to postpone until you file.

Have you gone in for any free Ch 7 consultations yet? might help w./ pro se

GOOD LUCK

WINGNUT

[IOIOIO]

No Ch. 7 consultations yet, but probably when I'm ready to file.

My NAF case was finally assigned to a "neutral" and it will be interesting to see if they actually take note of the inconsistencies or insufficient notice I've received. I mean, it's not like a judge in a court where you can actually see them respond to inconsistencies you point out when you move for dismissal. I presume "neutrals" can just go ahead and give the benefit of the doubt to the companies that financially support NAF.

But yeah, I don't want to miss any opportunities to postpone. Does NAF alert you to those, or do you have to study their rule book and avoid technical traps they set for you, and which the collectors already know all about? If I have to become expert with NAF, then screw them, I'd rather just challenge/delay the claim in district court when Mann Bracken tries to produce the arbitration results there as evidence for their case.

[HRx]

"test"

[IOIOIO]

So I get the arbitration decision and, surprise: I lost. But what a farce: the account numbers on Mann Bracken's filings of evidence for this case number didn't match. All I was able to do was point this out to the "neutral" in my response but this manner of trying cases provides me no way of knowing why on earth the "neutral" wouldn't have a problem with this and make Mann Bracken start over and do things correctly. The "neutral" provides no explanation of any of his logic. One item in the case summary says I filed a deficient response, but I can't tell if that's the deficient response I first filed without sending Mann Bracken a copy, or the second response I filed remedying the deficiency when NAF notified me of the deficiency. Simply no explanation of any kind. It does appear that arbitration is a rubber stamp. At least a judge in a courtroom would explain a decision even if they bent over backward to give the collector the benefit of the doubt.

I realize this all doesn't matter and they need to get a judgment from a real court. If they mess up the account numbers there too, I have another chance to get it dismissed. But what a sucker a person would have to be to take the arbitration process seriously and treat it as if it could render as just a decision as any court. Real court, fair or not, would be a lot more likely to be accountable if a reasonable loser in a case asked them to.

[jp2861]

Arbitration is designed to benefit the creditor, not the debtor. I've read some stories on some of these so-called arbitrators with 100% decisions FOR the creditor. Seems like a big scam to me. Just a way for the creditors to keep it out of court and let someone that has ties to them decide. I guess that's what we get for not reading the fine print.

[IOIOIO]

Arbitration is designed to benefit the creditor, not the debtor. I've read some stories on some of these so-called arbitrators with 100% decisions FOR the creditor. Seems like a big scam to me. Just a way for the creditors to keep it out of court and let someone that has ties to them decide. I guess that's what we get for not reading the fine print.

I figured that the high probability of decisions for the creditor might only reflect people's losing by default, having not made any answer at all. Ultimately, I assume the vast majority of creditors' cases (for CC cards) is very strong, as in my case where I do know that I owe the CC company money. They just need to sue me properly, not haphazardly. But I did believe that once the defendant puts up a reasonable defense, showing they're not willing to simply lose by default, the arbitrator would deal with it in an accountable manner. I assumed they're called upon so seldomly to render a thoughtful judgment rather than rubber stamp a default case that I'd get at least a rudimentary explanation of the arbitrator's logic, just like a courtroom judge would give if you asked for that in a civil manner. Just because in the end I deserve to lose doesn't mean I shouldn't benefit from the delay afforded me by my creditor's laziness to make a proper case.

[HHM]

I concur...in nearly ALL cases, the debtor has no real defense, there really is nothing to arbitrate. The debtor stopped paying, it really doesn't matter why the debtor stopped paying.

[Rintaro]

WHAT IS NAF? Sorry i am still learning all the acronyms not familiar with NAF
Never mind I see it means national Arbritration Forum.

Hey,

Yes, just send a polite letter back to NAF, and the creditor, stating that you dispute the debt. That will buy some time. If you go to NAF's site, you can download their Code of Procedures.

It is free to dispute the debt, and the dispute doesn't have to be valid in order to delay things a bit. One of my creditors started arbitration in February, and there still hasn't been a hearing yet. 1st, I didn't recognize the creditor (due to a corporate takeover) so I said that I had never done business with that company. The company then had to prove that I did business with them. Once they did that, I realized that the CC company they took over had overstated the amount of money that I owed them. So, I sent something in stating that OK, I realize that I did business with that company, but the amount is too high, because... Then the creditors filed for a couple of extensions in order to get their case in order. Technically I may have inadvertently filed a counter-claim, but I don't know.

As long as the disputes don't seem too frivolous, there are free ways (aside from postage) to delay the process. Last time I checked, my Hearing is scheduled for no later than mid-November. However, this is the 3rd or 4th time NAF has said that!

Best of Luck,

WINGNUT

[IOIOIO]

WHAT IS NAF? Sorry i am still learning all the acronyms not familiar with NAF

NAF stands for National Arbitration Forum: http://www.arb-forum.com/

You make a good point here, by the way. I've seen the quality of other online venues greatly degraded by people with a little knowledge getting lazy and using acronyms. It's off putting to new people as well as regulars. Why don't we stop with the acronyms entirely? I mean, I've been around here a while, and I still don't know what "CA" stands for, even though I get it by context.

[Rintaro]

Well As a newbie here it is annoying, but I also take certain ownership in reading sticky topics and learning the proper etiquette. I suggest a Sticky topic that deals with common terminolgy, acronyms ect..
It should be labeled as READ FIRST BEFORE POSTING.

NAF stands for National Arbitration Forum: http://www.arb-forum.com/

You make a good point here, by the way. I've seen the quality of other online venues greatly degraded by people with a little knowledge getting lazy and using acronyms. It's off putting to new people as well as regulars. Why don't we stop with the acronyms entirely? I mean, I've been around here a while, and I still don't know what "CA" stands for, even though I get it by context.

[IOIOIO]

Well As a newbie here it is annoying, but I also take certain ownership in reading sticky topics and learning the proper etiquette. I suggest a Sticky topic that deals with common terminolgy, acronyms ect..
It should be labeled as READ FIRST BEFORE POSTING.

Why not label the sticky "Bankruptcy Related Acronyms."

[Rintaro]

Why not label the sticky "Bankruptcy Related Acronyms."

Probably better to psy a new members Read Here First,
Shoud include:

• Acronyms used on this site and in common debt collection
• Bankruptcy terms
• general legal terms & acronyms
• Helpful links