I owe you all an apology-and myself too.

[DeadManCrawling]

Last week I lost my mind, sounded on the verge of suicide, and (for a moment) could have nearly imagined such a thing. After all, 3 mil in life insurance to my family or BK?

Well, I've recovered.

I posted in this thread

http://www.bankruptcyforum.com/showthread.php?t=13792

on the CH 13 side, as that is where we are at. My attorney is very experienced, having donenothing but BK and divorce for 19 years, and has handled cases for three business associates and two friends.

He explains it all in the thread, and it should be not at all like I had nightmares about.

End result is we will pay about 250 or so per month for five years. This could be slightly higher or lower, as the thread explains, but is certainly manageable. Now, I understand there could be significant objections by the trustee, but we fall squarely in IRS guidelines in almost every area. In fact, he remarked that if there was a New Law case that the new guidelins was meant to help, ours was the closest he had seen, as far as his interpretation of the rules. Also, he spoke briefly with a US Trustee about a few aspects of our case, and the answers were excellent. Results may vary of course, and we live in Home of the Free Debtor-Florida.

Anyway, I wanted to thank each of you who read my posts ont he 7 side, especially those who responded, even the negative ones. (ie. you are too stinking rich to be broke). Each one added a dimension to my thought patterns, refuted a selfish argument on my part, dispersed blame, and allowed me to become a HUMAN BEING again, instead of a walking dollar sign that has been broken and cashed in.

As a result, my wife and I are working things out, and we may, MAY be able to salvage this mess.

I thank you all so much, and I am certain you will see me (and her) here through all this. Hopefully we will see confirmation and be able to chat amicably with everyone here for five years. . . and beyond.


Thanks so much everyone for allowing me to express my unbridled rage and frustration and (for the most part) discarding the worthless while answering carefully the intent.

It means everything to find a "support group" like this

DMC

[lrprn]

Sometimes out of our darkest experiences the richest life lessons can be learned. I'm so glad to hear that things are looking up for you, DMC! Amazing how much difference a few days can make after you get solid information about your options and have people in your life who truly care about you. Hope you'll continue to hang around with us 13ers - it's going to be a long haul for most of us! Glad to have you along for the journey.

[DeadManCrawling]

Sometimes out of our darkest experiences the richest life lessons can be learned. I'm so glad to hear that things are looking up for you, DMC! Amazing how much difference a few days can make after you get solid information about your options and have people in your life who truly care about you. Hope you'll continue to hang around with us 13ers - it's going to be a long haul for most of us! Glad to have you along for the journey.

10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve objections - will be test case for judge to issue ruling


lrprn what was the result of your "test case"? I may be too lazy or new to know how to find it. If so, please point me to the post, as I am very interested.

[lrprn]

lrprn what was the result of your "test case"?

No results yet....the trustee hasn't requested a court date.

Since you're interested, here's the background. Our trustee filed two objections to our case about a week after our 341 meeting back in June 06.

Objection 1: Our trustee objected to us paying back my husband's six loans against his retirement while we still actively contribute to our retirements - he called it 'double-dipping' since together what we contribute plus the retirement loan payments equals 11.5% of our gross income and our bk district only allows 10% to be contributed to retirement while in Ch 13. When we all met during a pre-trial hearing with our bk district court judge last October and this objection was discussed, he said that in our case, perhaps the double-dipping was understandable (we are 61 and 55 - not much time left to save for our retirements).

Objection 2: There's a mismatch between our Schedule I and J amounts on our Means Test that indicates we have $300 more disposable income a month than we actually have, so the trustee wants to raise our monthly payment by $300. The legal issue is what the Ch 13 monthly payment should be based on - true disposable income (our real income minus our real expenses) or the artificial IRS-based Means Test Schedule I income minus Schedule J expenses. We are the perfect case in our district to force a legal interpretation of a very badly written law. So far around the country, the court decisions dealing with this issue are split, but the majority have decided case by case against using the artificial means test figure.

Our lawyer feels the trustee is content to leave these objections on the back burner for now because our bk district judge and other case law decisions around the country are leaning in our direction on both issues and the trustee isn't anxious to set case law in our district if it won't be in his favor. So our Ch 13 case remains unconfirmed and we just keep making our monthly payments to the trustee on time and paying off my husband's retirement loans while we contribute to our retirements. Eventually the trustee will either drop one or both objections or will decide to chance an official ruling on one or both. We have no ability to influence either at this point, so we just concentrate on living our lives day to day....much happier lives now that we are living within our means for the first time in years!

[wayne-o]

thanks for posting ur info lrprn. I too have always been curious...just too chicken to ask.

[ilovemycaitybug]

I'm so glad you're feeling better. I was worried about you, you did sound very dangerously sad. I am also so glad you and your wife may be getting things settled! That's very exciting! We are here for you!!!

[BKOnce]

An occurred suicide/death accident while stuck in very poor financial situation can also cause "red flag" with any insurance company for their scrutiny reimbursement/investigation later. .. well... just like spending thousands dollars couple months before filing BK causing trustee to carefully audit your cases for that same reason before plan approval.

[DeadManCrawling]

An occurred suicide/death accident while stuck in very poor financial situation can also cause "red flag" with any insurance company for their scrutiny reimbursement/investigation later. .. well... just like spending thousands dollars couple months before filing BK causing trustee to carefully audit your cases for that same reason before plan approval.

Beleive it or not-I learned this from my insurance company when I signed the papers 5 years back.

A suicide in the first 18 months will not be paid. Anything after would be covered, for any reason-even finanacial losses or whatever. Even if the person was wanted on murder charges and faced the feath penalty and killed himself first.

He says they believe anyone who would kill themselves wouldn't have the patience to sign papers, pay the money and wait 18 months.

Under this guise, I suppose even the Virginia Tech shooter, who displayed incredible planning and patience (no offense to anyone in that area. No one admires him). He was obviously a complete loon-but a loon with PATIENCE. And the ability to plan. He could have, technically, signed an insurance policy 18 months prior with my same incurance company. His family would receive the millions, even with all that happened. Right? Wrong? I don't know. Just the way it is. . .


Of course, for me it was a passing fancy, a brief daydream of a quick way out that would load my family for life with dollars. But I have realized the priorities were wrong. Forest for the trees? Hell I couldn't see the ground I walked on at the time.

I suspect the insurance companies are wrong. I don't think you can make generalities about what desperate people will do, and someone who HAD the patience to wait a year and a half could, conceivably, pay a few hundred bucks a month over that time, plan it well enough, and hnd their beneficiary millions, even tens of millions of dollars.

Of course you would have to die for such a thing. No small price.

DMC

[Mynameis]

This is really sad that this topic is even being discussed. This really hits home with us because my husbands uncle committed suicide 2 years ago because he could not pay his credit card debt. He was too ashamed to come to anyone for help, and instead he drove out to the middle of nowhere and shot himself in the head. Solving nothing and leaving all of his friends and family heartbroken and in deep depression for many years to come.

I have to admit, there have been times when I have felt hopeless because of debt...times when bills were paid just to our necessary accts (utility, water, mortgage, daycare), our bank acct was empty and we had no money to buy food for our 3 & 4 yr old. We felt like huge failures who let our kids & ourselves down.
But you just have to snap out of it and be strong if not for yourself for the ones who you love. We had to bite the bullet and ask both sets of parents to "borrow" money & sell some really nice things that we had. Now this month we are right back in that same place pretty much.

Basically what I want to say is..
Life is not about having great credit!!!! Life is certainly not about material posessions!! Or spoiling your kids rotten!
There comes a point when you just have to say f*ck it.
What's important in life is your relationships with your friends and family. Living, laughing & loving... none of which cost any money!

You are worth way more than your accumulated debt to the ones who love you . In fact I'm sure you are priceless in their eyes.

I am so glad things are looking up and you are feeling better!