Opps I forgot to add... My job expense vs my income

[freshstart06]

In all my post I forgot all about my job expense, not my business but job. As a mortgage broker we have to pay for our own marketing. My leads are at almost $1000 a month in the last 6 months my job expenses exceed my commissions put me into negative income.

Please note, this is not for my business but my job. I work for a Mortgage company that branches out people in other states, I am commission but my wages are W2 but we still have to pay our own expenses in order to make money I have to pay for marketing, I do not get reimbursed for this.

Where do you put this info on the means test and schedules. This alone should reduce the my family total assets for the last 6 months. I know they put this into consideration but I don't know where to plug it in.

I don't know How I forgot, but I just got a call from the lead company. I have receipts of all payments. I am sure trustee will understand what is happen in the mortgage business with all the forclosures and lenders going out of business, home values going down, etc.

[BKTango]

It's me again lol. I am not sure where you would put that expense in the means test. But, on your actualy expense schedule, remember the means test you normally use allowables, on the schedule J bk from you use your actual monthly expenses. That is where you would definately put this expense. If you printed those forms off that I provided the link for yesterday, on schedule J near the bottom line 16. Regular expenses from operation of business, profession, or farm (attach detailed statement). Place that expense here, and attach a statement showing those expenses. However on line 19. you have to list any decrease or increase in expenditures anticiapted in the following year after filing. This is where there might be the "you are not working and don't have that $1000 a month expense anymore" question arise. If it's not known when you may go back to work, it may be looked at as an expense you won't have in the coming months.

Putting that thought into my head I guess I should ask, are you still paying this expense? When you do your expenses on schedule J you do not do them according to the last 6 months, you do your expenses as current and slightly towards the future. So if you no longer have that expense due to not working, or won't have it for some time to come I don't know if you can claim it. That's something to look into and find out.

[freshstart06]

Well I cancelled the expense last month but remember I had that expense when I closed my loan which actually made me negative because my loan was so small. On the means test it states business reciepts and business expense when I put my info there it just gave me $0 income. I plan to go back to work as soon as my cast is off and I can walk without crutches which should be in August but remember I am commission only so it can take a little as a few weeks to close to months to get business but in the meanwhile I still have to pay for marketing, kind how realtors have to pay for marketing regardless if a house sells or not. I have to pay for business cards, flyers, leads, high cell phone cost you name it regardless if a loan closes or not. IN this horrible market a loan can be ready to close and I can get an email from the lender that states that the property is no longer appraising or the lender is going out of business, this really happened to me. This is another area where our money was going. So if they ask me when I am going back to work I can answer that but if they ask me when am I going to close a loan that is another story. From what I have been reading I get credit for my expense due to my line of work and it can cancel out my income.

I plan on moving to a much cheaper place, do I tell them that, I am sure they are going ask us how we are going to make it on our budget but once we find a home for at least $1200 a month we will be saving a bunch of money there.

[BKTango]

I truly am at a loss over your job expenses. I mean it's hard to say really, you can't claim the past ones and currently they aren't there and won't be until at least August. So I really don't know what to tell you regarding that, maybe someone else can help you on that one.

As far as renting a new place, there's another hurdle. You can stay there paying $2000 a month in rent for awhile, or you can rent a cheaper place before you file and end up with even more income left over. The problem is you said you plan on moving to a cheaper place and will have a bunch of money left over for that reason. On schedule J .... it clearly asks at the bottom if you anticipate any increase or decrease in expenses. Morally speaking, since you know what you are going to be doing you are "required" to put that information there and end up with the trustee knowing then you will have extra funds plus the possibility of you going back to work in the next month and a half or so. You could also maybe use that to drop in your job expenses and you anticipate having that expense again. So it would offshoot the decrease. That's where you start getting into a whole gray area.

The best thing you could do right now, is sit down and figure up your expenses today. Not what they were yesterday or last month and not what they will be tomorrow or next month. Start with today. Then go from there, I think you are trying to come up with every way possible to do this and you are throwing numbers everywhere to the point of confusion.

[freshstart06]

I wish I could talk to you on the phone LOL I used rental expense of $1100 which is allowed in Arizona I did not use my current rent $2000 on the means test and still passed. Trust me, we Have to do this, we are really in trouble. There is not other way, our bank accounts stay in the negative. Even though I plan on working in a few months does not mean it will happen. both of my feet are broke and I am a diabetic, I am pending a possible surgery, I have to wait until I can walk again without assistance. I am a thin tiny person and my ankle is not healing so they are considering surgery. With four kids we don't want to get deeper and the hole trying to take care of the home on negative income and trying to pay off old debt. We also have summons that may turn into a lawsuit. I am stressed out and depressed. I have to work from home because we just can't afford to send our kids to daycare full time, the cost of daycare is like $700 a month plus per kid.

The purpose of BK is to start over and plan from there and this is way we are doing this. We start over with no debt and then redo our budget around my medical expenses and the kids. I am in a rush because I want to beat any pending judgment that may come our way, we got the summons last month, yes we answered but Arizona can work fast sometimes. We can't afford another garnishment against my husbands check at the moment.

[lrprn]

Freshstart, we aren't lawyers so the suggestions you are getting from everyone (including me) arent' 100% reliable. We don't want you to assume that what we are saying is the truth for Arizona where bankruptcy is concerned.

I can say that with a LLC involved plus an income above the median and an unusual way of being paid, your case is not a simple, no-asset case that can safely be filed without a lawyer. I personally believe that you are taking a big risk if you try filing this case on your own or with a paralegal. I'm glad your mom wants to help you, but unless she filed on her own sometime since Oct 2005, then what she knows doesn't match the way the bk law works now.

I know you said don't have the money to pay a lawyer to file, but most bankruptcy lawyers do give free consultations. Contact 3-4 in your area to make appointments, then ask all your questions. You'll get a really good idea after talking to a few what will fly and what won't when you file.

Are you still paying on your credit cards or unsecured loans? If you are, then stop paying on those right now and use the money instead to retain a lawyer and catch up on what your kids need. Just trying to be helpful - of course, you must do what you think is right for your family.

[BKTango]

I'm going to have to agree with lrprn on this one and have said as much. I kept asking you after you said you paid your business expenses with personal money if you were/had a business and you said "no it's my job". Now I just read in your other post that you do in fact have an LLC where personal monies mixed with business. I know you wanted to file in this next month but I just don't see it happening unless you want to take a risk. If I can answer a question based on my own experience or some knowledge then I will try too, but once again I will say I really wish you would learn as much as you can about this before you jump in, and as lrprn suggests please set up some more consults. Also see if an attorney has a payment plan, most do. It's not going to be a huge scary mess, but you just have way too many different things going on with your income and expenses to make this a simple do it yourselfer.

[freshstart06]

Thanks gang, but I broke down and asked a lawyer about that and they told me that it is similar to real estate agents, our job requires business expense to run, the LLC does not have any money associated with it nor do I even have a bank account attached to it, Nothing to worry about, she told me my case is a no assets case all the way and I truly qualify for chapter 7. I feel so much better about that.