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Met with attny... Anyone familiar with Riverside, Ca judge/trustee??

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    Met with attny... Anyone familiar with Riverside, Ca judge/trustee??

    Late last week I met with an attorney that I like... I just wanted to share a few things that she told me, and see what you guys think of it...

    First off, we are far above the median income (wife and I made about $90,000 per year. So our "presumption" is based on our disposable monthly income. According to the attorney, after running all the numbers in her software, our house payment is the deciding factor in whether or not we can file a chapter 7. With the house payments, we qualify... Without it, we would have to go chapter 13 (which we don't want)...

    1. So she said that as long as the house payments are current on the date of the 341a, then we'd be ok. We can stop making payments immediately after the meeting. Basically, our initial intention would be to keep the house, but we would then decide that we don't want to after all... (FYI, our 1st mtg is $1900 and our 2nd is $600... But we could rent for ~$1800)... Does that game-plan sound correct???

    2. We have an RV (travel trailer) that we desperately want to keep. It's the only thing that keeps our family sane. She recommended against re-affirming on any "luxury" item, but said that we may be able to just keep it by continuing to make payments... Thoughts???

    3. We have been using credit cards to live off of, up until the day that we met with the attorney (9/20). We stopped using them that very moment (BTW, our 2 major cc's are both with Wells Fargo, one for $17,000 and the other for $26,000). But we did a cash advance to payoff other creditors about 1 week earlier. She said that's no problem, but we should wait about 2 months before filing, plus make 1-2 payments on that particular card just to show that we didn't take the advances fraudulently.

    4. But here's the thing, we'd REALLY like to file sooner. For us, the sooner the better. Here's the reason: We'll need to get into a rental house ASAP. If we wait until after the 341a, then our credit will already be shot, and no property management company will rent to us. So here's what we're thinking:

    -----Planning on filing petition on 12/1.
    -----I will pay 12/1 house payment, and 12/20 equity payment. These will be the final mortgage payments that I'll make.
    -----341a should be at beginning of January. At that time, I can say that we're still current on the house (although I wouldn't have made Jan 1 house payment, I'd still be within the 15 day grace period).
    -----But here's the kicker; I'll have to rent a house in mid- to late November, and take possession of it on 12/1. Otherwise my credit will already be shot in January, and I won't be able to get a good rental. (But I will still actually live in my house until sometime after the 341a...the rental will be vacant until then).

    Anyway, I like what she had to say, I just wish it could all happen RIGHT NOW, not 2 months from now.

    What do you guys think about this situation and the suggestions from the attorney?
    Last edited by DontBother; 09-24-2007, 04:03 PM.

    #2
    Nice to meetcha, I'm another California filer. But I'm not in the Riverside area.
    I can't answer most of your questions, but I will say that you should wait for at least 60 if not 90 days after that last balance transfer, which would indeed put you up towards Christmas if you waited the 90 days. Are you making any payments on those last balance transfers that would be within 90 days if you file on 12/1?

    I wonder if the Trustee will allow you to keep that recreational vehicle? I hope so!
    Good luck with all and keep us posted.
    <<I am NOT an attorney, my comments are anecdotal only. Contact an attorney for advice>>
    FINALLY DISCHARGED 92 DAYS AFTER THE 341! A NEW START!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by PaKettle View Post
      Nice to meetcha, I'm another California filer. But I'm not in the Riverside area.
      I can't answer most of your questions, but I will say that you should wait for at least 60 if not 90 days after that last balance transfer, which would indeed put you up towards Christmas if you waited the 90 days. Are you making any payments on those last balance transfers that would be within 90 days if you file on 12/1?

      I wonder if the Trustee will allow you to keep that recreational vehicle? I hope so!
      Good luck with all and keep us posted.
      I just made a payment on the cc (with balance transfer) today, and I'll probably make another next month.

      Can the trustee force me to give up the RV in a chapter 7?? What if I just keep making payments?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by DontBother View Post
        Can the trustee force me to give up the RV in a chapter 7?? What if I just keep making payments?
        The problem is that if you are keeping the house so you can file Ch 7, then the house is your place of residence, not the RV. That makes it much harder to protect both your home AND your RV solely with exemptions.

        How interested the trustee is going to be in your RV after you file depends on several things:
        - Which of the two CA exemption systems you choose
        - How much of your home exemption you need to protect your house
        - How much the RV is worth vs how much you owe on it
        - Whether the trustee thinks he/she will recognize enough profit if they seize and sell the RV to make it worth his/her time and effort to go after it. Instead of seizing it, your trustee may offer to settle for the RV's value over what your exemptions allow to allow you to keep it (although you'll probably end up paying much more than the RV is worth for the privilege).

        Interview several more CA bk lawyers to get additional interpretations. However, I have a feeling that you may end up having to decide between losing your RV but being able to file Ch 7 or keeping your RV and being forced to file Ch 13. Keep us posted what you find out as you continue to interview, ok?
        I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

        06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
        06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
        07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
        10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
        01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
        09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
        06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
        08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

        10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
        Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by lrprn View Post
          The problem is that if you are keeping the house so you can file Ch 7, then the house is your place of residence, not the RV. That makes it much harder to protect both your home AND your RV solely with exemptions.

          How interested the trustee is going to be in your RV after you file depends on several things:
          - Which of the two CA exemption systems you choose
          - How much of your home exemption you need to protect your house
          - How much the RV is worth vs how much you owe on it
          - Whether the trustee thinks he/she will recognize enough profit if they seize and sell the RV to make it worth his/her time and effort to go after it. Instead of seizing it, your trustee may offer to settle for the RV's value over what your exemptions allow to allow you to keep it (although you'll probably end up paying much more than the RV is worth for the privilege).

          Interview several more CA bk lawyers to get additional interpretations. However, I have a feeling that you may end up having to decide between losing your RV but being able to file Ch 7 or keeping your RV and being forced to file Ch 13. Keep us posted what you find out as you continue to interview, ok?
          Thanks for the comment... Just to clarify, there is no equity in the RV. I owe almost exactly it's value. So exemption shouldn't be a problem.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by DontBother View Post
            Thanks for the comment... Just to clarify, there is no equity in the RV. I owe almost exactly it's value. So exemption shouldn't be a problem.
            No equity in the RV makes a big difference! Your lawyer is right - keep making the payments on time and it's likely your RV will survive your filing. Do ask your lawyer if CA is one of the states that doesn't allow a creditor to repossess as long as your payments are on time - that adds an extra layer of protection from your RV lender.

            Just curious....when did you buy the RV?
            I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

            06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
            06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
            07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
            10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
            01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
            09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
            06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
            08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

            10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
            Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by lrprn View Post
              .

              Just curious....when did you buy the RV?
              A little over 1 year ago.

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks all for your comments on my RV... But of more importance to me is item #1 that I listed in my opening post. Does this sound legit? Do I HAVE to keep current on both mortgages in order for them to consider my mortgage payments in my budget? I recall seeing on some BK site that there is a case law somewhere that basically says that the trustee/judge (whichever) is only supposed to look at your obligations as of the date of filing your petition, not based on your statement of intentions...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by lrprn View Post
                  No equity in the RV makes a big difference! Your lawyer is right - keep making the payments on time and it's likely your RV will survive your filing. Do ask your lawyer if CA is one of the states that doesn't allow a creditor to repossess as long as your payments are on time - that adds an extra layer of protection from your RV lender.

                  Just curious....when did you buy the RV?
                  lrpn, I am not sure but the comments my attorney made to me about keeping my car makes me think that CA is not a state that prohibits repossession of vehicles.

                  He (actually 2 or 3 different attorneys I talked to) indicated to me that I could PROBABLY keep my car by just continuing to make payments on time without reaffirming, but that they COULD repossess it if they so choose. He said it was a risk, but that the advantage is that if I do not "reaffirm the debt" I could just walk away from it at any time. But if I do not reaffirm and keep making payments they COULD repossess but are unlikely to.

                  The problem in my case is, I think, that my car is new - I just bought it in January, it's an '07 - so they may decide it is worth it to them to repossess it and sell it rather than risk my walking away from it after I beat it up more. I do have about $1500 equity in it though and will have a few hundred more $ of equity by the time of our 341 meeting.

                  But anyway, the above gives me good reason to believe that they CAN repossess in CA even if one keeps up the payments on a vehicle. But of course, one should check with one's attorney to find out the facts. I am meeting with my attorney on Wednesday, I will try to remember to ask specifically about this law and report back here.
                  <<I am NOT an attorney, my comments are anecdotal only. Contact an attorney for advice>>
                  FINALLY DISCHARGED 92 DAYS AFTER THE 341! A NEW START!!!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by DontBother View Post
                    A little over 1 year ago.
                    If you don't mind - how much are your RV payments and at what interest? I'm just curious; no need to answer if you don't want to!

                    I would think that letting it go might give you more income to start fresh with after bankruptcy... I know you said you loved having it, but really, the insurance and payments on it must be pretty high. I'd consider letting it go... Just my 2 centavos.
                    <<I am NOT an attorney, my comments are anecdotal only. Contact an attorney for advice>>
                    FINALLY DISCHARGED 92 DAYS AFTER THE 341! A NEW START!!!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by PaKettle View Post
                      If you don't mind - how much are your RV payments and at what interest? I'm just curious; no need to answer if you don't want to!

                      I would think that letting it go might give you more income to start fresh with after bankruptcy... I know you said you loved having it, but really, the insurance and payments on it must be pretty high. I'd consider letting it go... Just my 2 centavos.

                      Payments are $133 per month plus $5 extra for insurance... It's just a travel trailer, nothing fancy. As often as we use it, it's actually a pretty cheap form of recreation.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by DontBother View Post
                        Payments are $133 per month plus $5 extra for insurance... It's just a travel trailer, nothing fancy. As often as we use it, it's actually a pretty cheap form of recreation.
                        Oh, okay! I thought maybe it was one of those big $45,000 jobbies or something and you were paying $500/month or something like that!

                        Then, I would guess, you should try to just reaffirm on it like a car, or as my attorney said, usually if you keep the payments up and have not missed any, they will not repossess it they will just let you keep paying it. But it probably wouldn't hurt to get a couple more free consultations and get other opinions from attorneys on the matter and especially on point #1 in your question.
                        <<I am NOT an attorney, my comments are anecdotal only. Contact an attorney for advice>>
                        FINALLY DISCHARGED 92 DAYS AFTER THE 341! A NEW START!!!

                        Comment

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