I don't understand what we're paying?

Last night I went over our bankruptcy paperwork (again and again) that our attorney gave us a copy of yesterday. He is suggesting a 3-year plan, and it has what our disposable income is, how much will be deducted from my husband's pay check bi-weekly, etc., but here is where I am getting totally confused:

ALL of our bills that we keeping are "outside" the plan. There is nothing included inside the plan - our house, our cars, our student loans (minus the private one we're going to try and get discharged), everything. Where it lists what is getting paid, all it has is the Trustee's fee and the rest of what we owe our attorney. There is nothing listed about what unsecureds are getting paid with our monthly payment, if any, how much they're getting paid, etc.

I looked these papers over a total of 3 times and so I'm wondering what exactly we're paying into this plan for? Is there a specific section I need to zero in on or do they not include this type of information, such as a breakdown as to who gets what?

Thanks in advance!

I've seen other members on here post about plans like yours where only attorney and trustee fees are paid. Did you pass the means test but were below state median? I think that was the case of some of the other members that posted about plans like this.

Are you below your state median?
Is there a reason you are filing a chapter 13 instead of a chapter 7?

Are you above or below your state median income (I would assume below if you are in a 3 year plan)
What is the disposible income.
And if only the trustee and attorney is being paid in the chapter 13, then you must not be trying to save an asset in chapter 13.

Which begs the question, why do a chapter 13?

Others please correct me if I'm wrong.. But, you are resonsible for the other things outside of the plan OUTSIDE OF THE PLAN. They would not be listed "in your plan".

Yes, we are saving assets. That's why we're filing 13. We are above our state median income.

The disposable income is like 10 times less than what I thought it would be, only $184.19.

I am looking at Form 22C, and while my atty may be asking for a 3-year plan, it actually has a little box blackened in at the top that says, "The applicable commitment period is for 5 years," instead of 3 years, but on the Chapter 13 Plan documents, it states $184.19 per month for 36 months, total plan payments $6,630.84. Well, we only owe our atty the other half for a 13, which is $1300 because we have already paid him $1300. So that's what I'm not understanding. Where is the rest of our money, the $5,130.84, going to go? I mean that's certainly not going to all go to the Trustee is it? I mean for what? Writing a check to our atty for us?

You keep the rest and pay your bills not in the plan.

Others please correct me if I'm wrong.. But, you are resonsible for the other things outside of the plan OUTSIDE OF THE PLAN. They would not be listed "in your plan".

Right, I know we're responsible for what's outside the plan because we want to keep our cars and our house, etc., but what I am not understanding is where is the money to the unsecured creditors? I mean we have a monthly payment that we will pay to the Trustee, but for what? There's nothing listed here other than the rest of the atty fees and the trustee %.

Are the unsecureds not getting anything? I *thought* they would get something. That's why I am confused because I thought it would be outlined which ones were getting what amount, if any.

The trustee will take the money he gets and pay what he can to the creditors. After your plan is over, the debts are "written off". All of it will be gone. They only get what the trustee gives them from your payment.

So they must be getting something, it's just not listed what. All righty, then.

Thanks!

So they must be getting something, it's just not listed what. All righty, then.

Thanks!

Welcome to your new life! I know mine is a lot less stressful now! No creditors calling.. I don't have to worry about having money for groceries, etc.

It doesn't say which of your unsecured it getting what amount yet because until they file claims, nobody knows how much goes to what unsecured creditor. After you file I think they have 90-180 days (depending on whether they are regular creditors or government agencies) to make a claim, so until that time period expires, it's impossible to predict which will file claims and for how much, so the % to each unsecured it determined after the time for making claims is up. In the meantime your trustee will put the money in an account, and once they know who made claims and for how much, they will determine what % each gets and start dispersing it.

Welcome to your new life! I know mine is a lot less stressful now! No creditors calling.. I don't have to worry about having money for groceries, etc.

Yes! I know what you mean! Yesterday, after FINALLY signing the papers and the atty submitting them, I could finally...I don't know....breathe again? We've been dealing with all of this for a very long time now I know you know what I mean when I say I have been stressed to the max!

It doesn't say which of your unsecured it getting what amount yet because until they file claims, nobody knows how much goes to what unsecured creditor. After you file I think they have 90-180 days (depending on whether they are regular creditors or government agencies) to make a claim, so until that time period expires, it's impossible to predict which will file claims and for how much, so the % to each unsecured it determined after the time for making claims is up. In the meantime your trustee will put the money in an account, and once they know who made claims and for how much, they will determine what % each gets and start dispersing it.

That makes perfect sense!

Sorry, I'm a newb to all this, so I'm not sure how these things go and I guess if I had really thought about it, I could have figured that out...lol.

So they must be getting something, it's just not listed what. All righty, then. There's no indication of what your non-secured creditors will receive because until they have had a chance to file claims after you file, there's no way to know how much of your payment will go to which creditors. Regular non-secured creditors have 90 days and the government has 120 days to file claims to be repaid in your case.

It's interesting that you are above the median in income but your lawyer is filing a three-year plan. How much above the median are you?

There's no indication of what your non-secured creditors will receive because until they have had a chance to file claims after you file, there's no way to know how much of your payment will go to which creditors. Regular non-secured creditors have 90 days and the government has 120 days to file claims to be repaid in your case.

It's interesting that you are above the median in income but your lawyer is filing a three-year plan. How much above the median are you?

Yea, I thought you could only file a 36 month plan if you otherwise qualified for a 7 (below the median) and were filing a 13 only to save assetts....

Our gross income is $20,900 above the state median.

See, that's what I'm wondering - if we'll even get 3 years because on Form 22C, that little box is filled in for "the applicable commitment period is 5-years," but on our petition, the plan atty has there is for 3-years?

Our gross income is $20,900 above the state median.See, that's what I'm wondering - if we'll even get 3 years because on Form 22C, that little box is filled in for "the applicable commitment period is 5-years," but on our petition, the plan atty has there is for 3-years?How experienced is your lawyer filing Ch 13 since October 2005? What % of his/her cases right now are Ch 13 cases?

If you don't mind sharing, what does your Means Test state as your monthly disposable income? What does Schedule I and J state as your monthly disposable income?

Means Test/ Monthly Disposable Income = $184.19

On Schedule I, the Combined Average Monthly Income is $5,383.25. (This is after husband's payroll deductions - I don't have any because I am self-employed. Anyway, I'm assuming it's what you wanted because there isn't a line that says disposable income on Sch. I, just a combined average monthly income)

Schedule J, the Monthly Net Income is $184.25

Means Test/ Monthly Disposable Income = $184.19. ... Schedule J, the Monthly Net Income is $184.25This is why your attorney can file a three-year plan. Very little disposable income is showing on both the Means Test and Schedule I minus J.

Just curious - you are very close to the magic number of $100/month disposable income. If you show less than $100/month disposable income, this would tip you into Ch 7 rather than Ch 13. Are you in arrears on your mortgage, cars, or other big ticket assets and that's why you want to file Ch 13? Or was this your lawyer's idea?

No, we're not in arrears on anything. We were, but we got caught up by borrowing some money from my mother. I'm actually 2 weeks late on a car payment, but it's laying here to go out in the mail tomorrow, so we'll be okay there.

We're doing a 13 because I have assets to protect. I have assets in my name that should not be as of early last year (they were sold and given away last year), but I have to protect them.

We're doing a 13 because I have assets to protect. I have assets in my name that should not be as of early last year (they were sold and given away last year), but I have to protect them. I'm confused....you are filing Ch 13 to protect assets that you no longer have?

Yes, because they are still in my name. One asset, which was a house and piece of property, were sold last year. They were my father's, but came to me when he passed in '05. The new owners have not yet transferred the title to the land and property. I don't know why. The other asset is an antique car that was my father's, I gave/gifted to my brother last year, I signed the title and gave it to him thinking he would transfer it to himself in the state in which he lives, and found out a couple months ago that he has not done so. I don't know why. Plus, I have other assets that were my father's that are now mine and I want those protected as well.

So, yes, I am. I am also protecting myself. If the bk courts were to take those assets that are not mine, but are still in my name, then I am 100% certain I would be sued by those who bought the house and property, and I obviously don't have the money to give back to them.

Yes, because they are still in my name. One asset, which was a house and piece of property, were sold last year. They were my father's, but came to me when he passed in '05. The new owners have not yet transferred the title to the land and property. I don't know why. The other asset is an antique car that was my father's, I gave/gifted to my brother last year, I signed the title and gave it to him thinking he would transfer it to himself in the state in which he lives, and found out a couple months ago that he has not done so. I don't know why. Plus, I have other assets that were my father's that are now mine and I want those protected as well.

So, yes, I am. I am also protecting myself. If the bk courts were to take those assets that are not mine, but are still in my name, then I am 100% certain I would be sued by those who bought the house and property, and I obviously don't have the money to give back to them.

I would think that as long as you could provide documentation of the sale of your house, it wouldn't matter if it was still in your name or not...you have evidence that it's no longer yours, regardless of what is on record with the county.

As far as the antique car, do you know how much it is worth? You might be able to reshuffle your exemptions to cover the car.

We're just asking all of these questions because a chapter 7 is much less expensive than a chapter 13...you are paying $184/mo for 36 months, which is $6,624, and you won't be done for 3 years. With a chapter 7, you'll pay your attorney's fees (which are much less in chapter 7 than in a 13) of about $1000...with all the court costs, etc. you'll end up paying $1500...and you'll be done with it in a matter of months... usually about 4-5 months.

Yes! I know what you mean! Yesterday, after FINALLY signing the papers and the atty submitting them, I could finally...I don't know....breathe again? We've been dealing with all of this for a very long time now I know you know what I mean when I say I have been stressed to the max!

Been there and know how good you feel to get this over with. It's like a huge burden was lifted off your shoulders. But realize you still have hard work ahead; Chapter 13 is not a walk in the park. Realize that now and batten down the hatches - you will be living on a cash only basis now for the next 3 years; you will have to try to save money on the side for things that will occur and happen when you least expect them - i.e., need new tires, the hot water heater goes, leaking roof, etc., etc. Also there are the car repairs that will need to be done. You will have a major lifestyle change going through the Plan. Learn from it as we did. Make budgeting a game; we saved loose change in our pockets/wallets everyday and put it in a large jar to save for the unexpected. You'd be surprised as what you can do and what you can accomplish while paying off your Plan. The other major thing is do not be late with any payments, including your Plan payments, during your payback period. If you feel you cannot make your Plan payment or are having difficulties paying anything else, contact your attorney immediately, or if you experience a job loss or income increase. Plans can be modified if necessary.

Best of luck to you - you will find lots of help in this forum.

The Plan.

A MT problem would require a 5 yr. Plan.

Some jurisditions (ie WDPa) require future mtg pmts in the plan.

I file in 4 jurisdictions. I have never seen a 13 w/o the D's car (ie purchase money contract) not being included in the plan.

I understand all the questions and from my end, a 7 certainly looks much better than a 13, but my situation is screwy, is the only way I know how to put it.

I sold the house to family. The only documentation I have (long story as to why) is a few very large deposits over a 2-month period to my bank account. That's it. The attorney said when I explained all of this to him is that the house and property would probably be dragged into the bk proceedings because #1, it was less than 2 years ago, and #2, it was to family.

The car I gave to my brother is worth a good bit. So isn't the antique car that is mine that used to be my dad's as well. Plus, I have a truck (a '97) that was my dad's that I paid off about 3 months ago. Another one of my brothers was supposed to pay for it and keep it, but he passed away unexpectedly about 2 months after my dad did. The truck is in excellent shape and there wasn't much left owed on it, so we decided to pay it off, keep it, and hopefully sell it.

As far as neither of our cars being included in the plan, well, that surprised me as well. The only thing I can think is on car #1, it will be paid off in 3 years anyway and it has held it's value. There is only a $6 difference between the payoff amount and the value. On car #2, we still have about 4 years left on that contract and we are really upside down on it (by about $13K); however, the atty said that he is going to try and work with the bank on that one first and then if they won't budge, he will try to "cram" it down. I don't know if that makes a difference or not, though?

Both of my cars were left out of the 13 plan. Have a year to 18 months left on each. We are current on the payments. One is within range of its value, the other is about 4k upside down. It made sense to keep them out as we could trade or sell them after we have them paid off and not wait 5 years.

Both of my cars were left out of the 13 plan. Have a year to 18 months left on each. We are current on the payments. One is within range of its value, the other is about 4k upside down. It made sense to keep them out as we could trade or sell them after we have them paid off and not wait 5 years.

Just a word of caution......just because you are paying on your vehicles outside of the 13, doesn't mean they aren't "part of" your 13. What I mean to say is, any equity you have in the vehicles is part of your BK Estate. Don't assume you can sell or trade them without permission from the trustee..... You should always check with your attorney.

Just a word of caution......just because you are paying on your vehicles outside of the 13, doesn't mean they aren't "part of" your 13. What I mean to say is, any equity you have in the vehicles is part of your BK Estate. Don't assume you can sell or trade them without permission from the trustee..... You should always check with your attorney.

Very good point. That should certainly not be overlooked.