Ex filed Chapt 7 We have shared property

[Gcapps]

My ex-spouse filed bankruptcy. Our home went for a third of the value of "his" three mortgages at a trustee sale yesterday. The bankruptcy court froze all our assets which only included the home and one lot next to it that was free and clear. I am not part of this bankruptcy or involved in any way with his delequent loans/mortgages on the home but our lot worth $80K is next to be sold to satisfy his loans.
We live in California and I do not know how to protect myself for my half of the value of the lot.
I never got notified of his bankruptcy or the delequent debts until two weeks before the Notice of Trustee sale was placed on our home.
Since the home sold for three times less then it's value, purchased by a third party, the mortgage holders will go after the lot which is free and clear.
This is the only thing worth any value after 23 years of marriage I have left.

How do I protect my lot since I am in the dark on everything going and not getting notified at all about any of this through mail or calls.
Things are just happening even though I am on the deed.
It seems a deed doesn't matter when someone files chapter 7 bankruptcy and are in default of loans that have nothing to do with a co-owner. I am not the defaulted party but I do have rights to property owned free and clear.

What do I do to protect my half of the propery?

[bkfiler]

honestly, i would get an attorney. they are free to counsel with and id talk to 3-6 until you get your answers and figure out what you are going to do.

[StaciMM]

I believe CA is a community property state-meaning that any debts accumulated during the marriage (as well as any assets) were jointly owned. Perhaps consult with BK attorneys, and also your divorce attorney.

[bkfiler]

what does the term community property mean exactly?

i always thought it meant that if you let some hussy live with you for more then 6 months that she gets everything you own and have to fight for at least half of it

[StaciMM]

Not sure how serious you are or aren't, BKfiler...

My understanding is that for a community property state, anything owned or owed by one spouse during the marriage is jointly owne/owed by both. A divorce decree may assign responsibility to one spouse or the other, but that is a civil matter and does not really override the responsibility.

So-if these debts were from the time of the marriage, one ex filing bankruptcy leaves the other ex with a whole lot of debt. Thinking logically, all the creditors may not do their homework and figure that out, but the more creditors the greater chance some of them will.

[bkfiler]

im always serious

so it only has to do with married couples? wht about the common law...

oh wait, i think that is the term im wondering about. does common law mean that people living together greater then x number of months then everything is like it is in marriage? i bet thats my confustion.

[Gcapps]

Update with a chuckle

My home was sold at an auction Dec 16th due to a second and third mortgage my ex took out with out me knowing about it. About a week after that the new owners sent a letter saying basically, "merry christmas, should we talk about eviction?? I had already left the home so I didn't even bother answering such a letter. I had taken everything I had put into the home including some inbuilt cabnets, dressers, bookselves, stereo cabnet leaving huuuuuuge holes in the walls. All the appliances including the hot water heater and leaving the home with no heating system. Purposely exposed the uninstalled roofing tiles to rain and snow and took out the custome staircase going down to a laundry room we had added on years earlier. The house even before that needed repairs and now, at best is only worth maybe $150K on a good day. I had also left our animals in the home for a few days while I moved before the second and third mortgage foreclosed. The carpet was bad before due to years of use. Anyway, the new owners purchased the home
through a second and third mortgage foreclosure auction for $87K. I don't believe they did a title search before the auction so they had no clue that another $145K was owed on the first mortgage which they became responsible for as soon as they took ownership. Well I know they know now.
I received a letter addressed to my ex sent to me, as this is the last address the first mortgage holder had on him giving me a payoff amount as requested.
Then I received just yesterday, I letter from them with a returned check for a very small amounts saying they couldnt accept it because the "home is now in foreclosure" and the full balance of the loan is now due. Of course, I will not pass this information on to the new owners. The check gets tossed in the trash while I get a chuckle out of it.
They didn't even send enough for one months payment, gawd. I was paying the first mortgage up until I found out my ex filed bankruptcy and there was a second and third mortgage so the first mortgage is only now foreclosing.

Three people, including myself own the lot next to the home. One not even related to us. I had temporarily chained some of our ladders and stuff to a tree on our lot. These new owners seem to think it's also theirs. They did some clean up which is fine, it needed it since there were three trees of christmas past on the lot but it bothers me that they had the nerve to go on my lot in the first place. My neighbors are not home enough to keep an eye on it for me until I can move my things so I'm not sure what to do about that. Those ladders and things are expensive and..on "my property"
Our lot is still frozen due to my ex's bankruptcy but had not been sold and probably won't be since the second and third mortgage has now been satisfied and there are no other secured creditors waiting in line, except the first and I know they will get their money in the foreclosure auction.

Now since these people were dumb enough to buy a foreclosure on a second and third trustee sale and didn't do a title search and find out about the first,
I am thinking about buying back my own home at the foreclosure auction. I
have everything but the roofing tiles to put it back together again so it wont cost me cent and..I'll actually make money. I need to sell this lot though.
How long does this bankrutcy stuff take?
My ex filed in late sept/early oct. Before the new rules took effect but I have heard nothing on what is going on lot wise other then my realitory had to take the foresale sign down until it was resolved.

My second question is, should I not be able to buy back my own house and it goes for more then the value of the first mortgage, who gets the money?
The new owners or the person who originally owned the home and took out the first mortgage?

I know this is a bankrutcy board but since I started this thread, I wanted to pose these questions here, plus I wanted to gloat that those people who sent me that letter right before christmas is now...the ones in foreclosure.

If I buy back the house, I know there are no other leans on it. I dont have to do a title search but I will just incase those people took out a loan in the little time they had on it. You just never know, but otherwise, no tax leans, and just one years association dues are owed on it. Besides, any debts when the first mortgage foreclosed is erased other then fedral stuff and there is none yet until later this year.

I probably won't get the home but I'm going to try. It's only now going into the first stages of foreclosure with the first mortgage and the new owners are clueless as to how to get access into the account. Everything is being sent to me that they try and I know, after finding out about the second and third, that if your name is not on that account, they wont give you squat of information. This is why the house got sold. I could not get information into my ex's account on the second and third. And believe me, I tried.

The new owners are trying to resell the home for $310K. The home was valued at it's best for way less then that. They won't sell the house for that especially left in the condition it is now. Its not livable and will cost them waaaaaaaay more to fix it up. It wont ever sell unless they take a huge loss.
Now, instead of sitting at my computer on auction day with an upset tummy, I'll be bidding on my home and loving every bit of it. Even if they bid the exact amount owed on the first, they lose major bucks but for me, won't cost me a dime to put back in the things I took out.

So, who gets the extra cash should the home sell for more then it's value, new owners or the original owners of the loan and the house?
And, how long does bankruptcy usually take. This has been months.

You bet after that letter from the people dumb enough to buy a home on a second and third trustee sale that I am chuckling about this whole thing

[bkfiler]

"How long does this bankrutcy stuff take? My ex filed in late sept/early oct. Before the new rules took effect but I have heard nothing on what is going on lot wise other then my realitory had to take the foresale sign down until it was resolved."

sign up for PACER and you can watch his case unfold and all the filed documents as well. cases usually take 90 days once filed unless there are holdups which can and do happen. he might have a discharge already.


"My second question is, should I not be able to buy back my own house and it goes for more then the value of the first mortgage, who gets the money? The new owners or the person who originally owned the home and took out the first mortgage?"

not sure. there may be additional lawsuits stemming from this. new owners to start with is my guess. or their lenders if they foreclose on them.

[StaciMM]

What makes you think the people who bought the house owe the 1st mortgage?

When a home is foreclosed on & sold, and the person is in BK... All the debt owed by the person who files is discharged in the BK. That person doesn't owe anything more even if the home was mortgaged for more than the sale proceeds. Mortgages are paid in order-1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. If the sale proceeds don't bring enough to pay all of the above, the lenders take a loss. So in this case, if the sale went for $87,000 and the 1st mortgage was $145,000, the 2nd & 3rd didn't get a dime even though they were the ones to force the foreclosure.

The one thing you may want to seek legal council on-your ex filed for BK protection but that does not protect you. The lenders who took a loss can come after the non-BK spouse to try to collect the balance.

In a community property state, both spouses are equally responsible for all debts regardless of who was named on the account.

Bkfiler-there are not many common law states remaining. Those that do still follow it, state than anyone who lives together like a husband and wife can legally be considered h&w even if they didn't get married. There might be a time requirement-would probably vary based on the state. It would probably only be an issue after a death or nasty breakup.

[StaciMM]

If there are proceeds-the home sells for more than the mortgages, there would be an exemption, and then any balance goes into the BK court to repay other creditors.

[Gcapps]

I'm confused though. Last time I talked to the first mortgage holder after the auction had happened, they had no clue about the sale. I just got a statement about 3 days ago which showed the full balance due on the loan and that 87K the home sold for wasn't there. They still want the full amount. It seems something is amis. I don't believe they got paid first at all.
Well I hope me and my girls don't lose more then we already have.
Maybe I'll hold that chuckle for later and call the first mortgage company

[bkfiler]

again, i would consult with an attorney. its free for the initial appoints - just act like you think you need to file a chapt 7. go to several of them.

you may find that you need to protect yourself. handle this to your advantage so as to not make it worse for your future.

[SinkingFast]

Bkfiler-there are not many common law states remaining. Those that do still follow it, state than anyone who lives together like a husband and wife can legally be considered h&w even if they didn't get married. There might be a time requirement-would probably vary based on the state. It would probably only be an issue after a death or nasty breakup.

That's exactly right, Staci. Our former neighbors were together 20 years, at least, never married. They had 4 children together and owned property, the house next door to us, that was jointly held in both names. When they split up, they had to go thru Family Court just like a married couple getting a divorce. Custody and visitation were decided for the minor children involved. The Court ordered that the house/property be appraised to establish fair market value. Then they deducted the mortgage and divided the equity $$ between the woman and the man. She wanted the house but couldn't afford to buy out the guy. He had the funds to buy her out, so their lender required he go thru the loan qualification process to verify he could finance the existing mortgage on the house on his own. Once that was all done, he paid her cash equal to her half of the equity. She moved out and he moved in.


If I understood correctly, the 2nd and/or 3rd mortgage lenders forced the home into foreclosure??!! If that's the case, the "New" owners don't own a thing. The primary mortgage lender was recorded at the courthouse within hours/days of the closing when you purchased the house. They have first dibs on the property. The primary mortgage lender is/will be the owner of the house once the foreclosure is complete. Even if they get more than the mortgage amount, there may not be any proceeds to pass on to the owner, whoever that is??!! The mortgage lender will have costs that will be tacked on top of the mortgage amount. At the very least, the lender will have attny's fees and court costs associated with the foreclosure, plus any costs related to the sale of the property.

Sounds like you need to know if the primary home loan was included in hubbys BK. You need to know if the debt was discharged by your ex's BK, or if you are the one being foreclosed on by the primary lender. You might be able to access your ex's BK records at PACER and learn something that way. The link to PACER is in several locations on the Forum. You might have to chat with an attny, yourself, and file a motion of discovery to learn what's going on.

Just a little tip about the Mail,............ When you get stuff addressed to the other people, put it right back in the mailbox and flip up the flag. The Postal Carrier will pick it back up on their next rounds. If you get the mail thru a PO Box, just drop it off with the Postal worker at the counter. The mail will either be delivered to the new people or returned to the sender. Interferring with mail delivery is a Federal offense. You can be prosecuted for interferring with the delivery of their mail, opening and reading their mail, and/or throwing their mail in the trash. Don't mean to sound harsh, but it can happen.

[bkfiler]

somehow i doubt she is worried about placing her ex's mail in the trash and getting thrown in jail for it.

[SinkingFast]

Guess I didn't read it right. I thought the mail was addressed to the "New" owners of the house. That had me a little worried for her. If it's her ex, well then, that's a whole different ball of wax!! LOL