Back from Lawyer's,worse than we thought

[MEA2]

Now I know why so many of you talk about the tears shed during BK etc.We had our consult with the lawyer today.It was from 1-2:30.We narrowly failed the means test for a Chapter 7.We made $3,000 over.We found out that with a CH 13 our dh's employer will be notified as would my DD's orthodontist because he is considered a creditor,I didn't realize that,The lawyer said he can choose to not see us anymore.I'm in utter shock over this mess......Should I have a consult with another lawyer(doubt it will make a difference)Part of me wants to go to my dh's parents and ask for money(I know my dh would never,and I really don't want to)but this seems like so much negative outweighs the positive on a chapter 13...what am i missing here?Help!

[AMISLANDER]

Definitely no expert here but...

...the 13 route really seemed worse than the 7...I think some of the smarter bk'rs could tell you more on that...I'd get a few more opinions...but $3K is a lot I think to go over the means test?

how much debt are you in?

[lrprn]

So sorry to hear your first lawyer consult was a difficult one for you, but at least now you have more knowledge than you did before and that's a good thing.

Definitely get at least 2-3 more free bk lawyer consults. We learned something useful with every lawyer consult we had, plus it helped us choose our lawyer we finally retained. Also go over your expenses and make sure you haven't forgotten anything - home assn fees, postage and envelopes, you get the idea - and cross-check the valuation of all of your assets. You may find you have enough change to shift your disposable income low enough to qualify for a Ch 7.

Hang in there - we are here for you and want to help so please come back to share what you learn going forward. Tomorrow will be better.

[MEA2]

...the 13 route really seemed worse than the 7...I think some of the smarter bk'rs could tell you more on that...I'd get a few more opinions...but $3K is a lot I think to go over the means test?

how much debt are you in?

$55,000 unsecured

[Minnymouth]

Unfortunately, yes all creditors must be notifed........

And in Chapter 13 your employers are notified also for direct payment to the Trustee......

And yes, the orthadontis (can't spell) can refuse any more treatment if you owe them $3,000 and discharge it in BK...... they will only get a portion of that amount in a Chapter 13....

Bankruptcy can be embarrassing - we all know that, but we suck it up and live with it..............

Don't let "pride" get in the way, of what you need to do to get your life straightened out.....

Believe me - OTHERS - are having major financial problems too --- probably many friends of yours also..... but they aren't doing anything about it....


I never dreamed in my lifetime that I would have to file....... I've always been so self sufficient and lived within my means............... then KABOOM...... all hell broke loose.....

Most people will not even know....

[Danielle1981]

Man.....I didn't realize that is what happened in a 13. I don't think I would have ever filed if that was the case.

[AMISLANDER]

I didn't know that one either....

Man.....I didn't realize that is what happened in a 13. I don't think I would have ever filed if that was the case.

well, my boss knows anyhow...he needed to know why I appeared out of my mind...I did it, I deal with it & I have to suck it up...just doing the best I can to deal with it...

55K is about the debt that I had...hmmm....but at my present income level, there was no way on earth I could ever pay it back without a lotto win...I'm just about making it with help from my bf.

Definitely get some more opinions...

[SinkingFast]

MEA,...........

Did the attny go thru the Means Test with you?? Or did he/she just take your Net and work off their own list of "acceptable" expenses??

Different attnys take different approaches. While you might think it's a waste of time to schedule more Consults, you should chat with a couple more attnys. See what they have to say.

[MEA2]

MEA,...........

Did the attny go thru the Means Test with you?? Or did he/she just take your Net and work off their own list of "acceptable" expenses??

Different attnys take different approaches. While you might think it's a waste of time to schedule more Consults, you should chat with a couple more attnys. See what they have to say.

HI SF!
He basically just listed "acceptables"as you put it.We definitely will go to more consults.This guy didn't seem confident,he said he just had a case that he tried to pass through as a CH 7(it was on the cusp)and he was told he couldn't he's gun shy I guess!

[MEA2]

So sorry to hear your first lawyer consult was a difficult one for you, but at least now you have more knowledge than you did before and that's a good thing.

Definitely get at least 2-3 more free bk lawyer consults. We learned something useful with every lawyer consult we had, plus it helped us choose our lawyer we finally retained. Also go over your expenses and make sure you haven't forgotten anything - home assn fees, postage and envelopes, you get the idea - and cross-check the valuation of all of your assets. You may find you have enough change to shift your disposable income low enough to qualify for a Ch 7.

Hang in there - we are here for you and want to help so please come back to share what you learn going forward. Tomorrow will be better.

Thank you so much,I will keep you all posted.I'm going to call Monday for another lawyer consult.

[SinkingFast]

We saw one attny who took Hubby's Net and started deducting his own set of "allowables". No Means Test. No checking the Median Income, which we are below if he had bothered to check. No checking the Schedules allowables for anything. Just his own set of "allowables".

He wouldn't allow us to claim expenses for our son's car. Son is 19. Lives at home while going to college full time. We claim him as a dependent on our income taxes. We own the car he drives. Pay the auto insurance and all maintenance for the car.

That attny said while we most certainly could "help" our dependent son with college if we wanted, we were not legally required to. So that attny deleted all those expenses that we pay.

"The Court will never allow that." was his pat answer for everything he wanted to cut.

Same thing with food. He said we spent way too much so he cut our amount nearly in half. He allowed $600/mo for a family of 6 when the Schedules allowable for our State is $1300/mo. It went on and on like that thru the whole Consult.

By the time he got done, he gleefully announced that we would be a 5 year Ch 13 and our payment would ONLY be $195/mo. Mind you, that payment won't even come close to paying 25% of our total debt. AND, we haven't had a month since that Consult with him where we've had over $100 left in the bank at the end of the month. Last month, in fact, we only had $27 left.

Where in the heck are we supposed to come up with $195/mo??!!

[djk]

you need to focus on crunching numbers to see if you can pass the means test. try to pass like your life depended on it.

[anonymuse]

Do you mean that you are $3K over the median income for your state, or you have $3K a month or $3K a year of disposable income?

I would recommend seeing several more attorneys for free consultations. If you wind up in a Ch 13, this person will be part of your life for 3-5 years and you need to feel comfortable with him or her.

Keep reading on here to make sure you're accounting for all of your expenses.

I learned a lot by downloading Best Case software. (http://www.bestcase.com/) I found it pretty intuitive--it's what lawyers use to fill out the forms and it comes with all the states exemptions and figures in it. It has a lot of helpful reminders of areas where you might miss something. It's intended for lawyers, not consumers. But there is a free download that prints Demo all over the forms.

[aa06a47]

As far as your employeer receiving notification of the BK, they will not. They may receive a wage order to pay the trustee. In most states, automatic deductions are not mandatory. I have also seen posters state they were able to get the judge to allow direct payments in incidence where the debtor didn't want the employeer to know.

[SinkingFast]

SF, I hope you didn't go with that attorney, he just wants that Chapter 13 fee which is twice what a Chapter 7 fee is.

I think he wanted the fee for the 13, knowing full well we qualified for a 7 and that we would eventually convert. His fee for 7, $1100, total fee for 13 with conversion $3,000.

Nope, Wen, we didn't go with that attny. We felt the same way you said. He knew we could go Ch 7. He just wanted to do the easy thing and collect more money.