Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Objection to Dishcharge settlement letter?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Objection to Dishcharge settlement letter?

    Hi, I have been reading this forum and have found some interesting stories, however, since each one is unique I thought I would throw my own story out there and see if I could get some opionions. Any thoughts would be much appreciated....thank you

    We filed for chapter 7 april 21, 2010; 341 meeting was held may 19; last week we received a letter from our attorney with an attachment from a firm threatening to take adversary proceeding action against us. The letter states the following

    Dear counsel, our firm has been retained to represent( creditor x) in this bankruptcy proceeding. Based upon an initial review of this account and our recommendation, our client is considering filina and adversary proceeding pursuant to 11 usc 523 objecting to the discharge of the debt. A review of the account reveals the following: Between November and February your client accumulated 6642 in retail charges. We believe that there is evidence and a sufficient basis to dishcharge the debt in this matter. As you are aware, once we bring a successful non dischargabilty action against your client, all or a portion of your client's debt may survive the bankruptcy.

    ....to paraphrase the rest, it goes on to state that before they obtain local counsel, they are giving us the option to settle at 5000.

    My lawyer doesnt seem to think it is a big deal stating that they are just putting out "feelers".....I, on the otherhand am worried that it could get costly if they decide to go ahead with the adversary proceeding.....

    I kept paying on all of the bills until the day we filed for bankruptcy, so its not like I charged with the intent to not repay it(it just got to be an endless cycle of paying bills with no money leftover for living expenses). They didnt specify what charges they were objecting to, so I am a little confused( we didnt have luxury purchases, but we did use it for groceries, gas and a couple of mortgage payments for a rental property that we could no longer maintain). I have another card with the same company for over 18,000 dollars and they arent pursuing it, so for this to pop up is a wall banger for me( we are discharging appx. 90,000 in unsecured debt, and the rental property; no asset case according to trustee). thanks for taking the time to read my story.

  • #2
    If I was an attorney I think I would choose to make my living sending threatening letters to people and hoping some percentage would just cave and send the money. I would listen to your attorney. They're just fishing.
    filed chapter 13..confirmed...converted to chapter 7...DISCHARGED!

    Comment


    • #3
      Based on the data provided, that letter is only that... a threat to file an complaint in an adversary proceeding. If you actually had been paying and it was more than 90 days out, they'd have to prove insolvency or fraud which could both be difficult.

      I'd heed your attorney's advice on this one.
      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you, I appreciate your thoughts. I was charging up until about 2 weeks before we filed, but nothing extravagant( In mid December we charged 2900 on the card for windows for our home, but again, I told my attorney this from the beginning and he didnt seem to concerned before we filed). Why do we even have 341 meetings for creditors and trustees if they can still object after the fact( I get meeting the trustee, but the meetings are also for the creditors right?). At any rate, I will just have to cross my fingers and hope another creditor wont pop up.....I think we only have another month to go, so if they were going to file they would be pushing it pretty close dont you think, or from what I have gathered from this site, they can ask for an extenstion.....? So from what you are saying is that they can only go back 90 days before we filed, 'cause they are using november thru February time frames and specifying the whole amount and not specific charges....

        thanks again

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by joke0445 View Post
          I was charging up until about 2 weeks before we filed, but nothing extravagant
          Probably why they are concerned. They probably figure that you KNEW you were going to be filing and should have known you couldn't pay it back. However, if this is for necessities like food, clothing, gasoline to get to work, medicine, medical care, etc... it's okay. However, if it was more than $550 in charges in the 90 days preceding, and they were "luxury" (non life supporting), then you are in a non-dischargeability situation!

          Originally posted by joke0445 View Post
          Why do we even have 341 meetings for creditors and trustees if they can still object after the fact( I get meeting the trustee, but the meetings are also for the creditors right?).
          You misunderstand what the 341 Meeting is for. It is only to "examine" a debtor under oath. It's the only "free" chance that a creditor has to question the debtor while they are under oath. Objections always happen outside that meeting and should a creditor really need to know things, they can request a Rule 2004 examination which is akin to a deposition. The 341 Meeting is "really" for the panel Trustee to question you and many times the United States Trustee (UST) will use it to question you as well.

          Originally posted by joke0445 View Post
          At any rate, I will just have to cross my fingers and hope another creditor wont pop up.....I think we only have another month to go, so if they were going to file they would be pushing it pretty close dont you think, or from what I have gathered from this site, they can ask for an extenstion.....?
          Yes, they can, along with requesting a Rule 2004 Examination.

          Originally posted by joke0445 View Post
          So from what you are saying is that they can only go back 90 days before we filed, 'cause they are using november thru February time frames and specifying the whole amount and not specific charges....
          They can go back much much much much further than that if they can prove actual fraud or that you were insolvent at the time you made the charges.

          The 90-days is just a "presumption" of insolvency and non-dischargeability. Anything else has to be proven.
          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

          Comment


          • #6
            JustBroke, so what you are saying is that they might have a case then? I used the card up to two weeks before filing, so then why arent they using that as the dates in question( they are using november thru feb, and we filed in april)? It is my understanding they they have to object to specific charges, but in my case they are threatening with AP all charges from november to february timeframe. Also, what is a 2004 examination?

            Comment


            • #7
              I would also like to point out that we have over 90,000 in cc debt, and we have another card with them for a lot more than 6,000( they must be going after this debt because it is the only one we used consistently until we filed, however, we did pay the minimum dues until we filed); so looking at our financial picure as a whole, you can see just by the amount of debt that we werent in good financial standing( so does ii even matter if we paid the minimum due at all?). Is it common for creditors to send out "feelers" as my attorney calls it, to people in bankruptcy? I guess this means at best to expect some form of settlement. My attorney did notify me right away and sent me a copy immediatly after receiving it. He also wanted me to send him statements and itemize my charges with explanations; however, I was receiving electronic statements at the time, but those privelages were revoked as soon as we filed bankruptcy and I no longer have access to my online account(s)(which is understandable but I cant see my statements to look at the charges for the months in question). Long story short, I dont have my statements so I called the creditor to have them faxed to my attorney and was told they could only send three months( so I cant get november, december or January's statements). Will this one creditor ruin my chances of getting ALL of my debt discharged, or just their debt( I am looking for worst case scenerio here).

              Comment


              • #8
                They haven't made a "case" yet, so the fact that you charged up to the date of filing, will just add to their presumption. Just work through your attorney.
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for sharing this--we all learn when we see what tactics creditors are using. Please let us know how this proceeds (or, hopefully, how it DOESN'T proceed.)

                  Remember it will cost them significant resources to actually pursue an adversary proceeding. It costs them virtually nothing to send this letter--note that they didn't even examine your charges very carefully.

                  And worst case scenario, it is just the creditor(s) who object and the charge(s) they object over. And, of course, they already offered a (not at all generous) settlement.
                  12/2009 Stopped paying CCs; 3/10 1st suit;
                  8/2010 finally served; No Asset 7 filed. 11 mos since last bal xfer
                  9/22/10 60 day club; 9/24/10 report of no distr; 11/23/10 DISCHARGED

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Heard from my lawyer in an email last night. Here is the gist of what he said "I haven't received a response from (creditor x's) attorney regarding my request for a more specific basis for their claim. However, they must file any objection by July 20. So if I don't hear back from them we'll just wait and hopefully the clock will run out."

                    On that note, he doesnt seem too concerned( so lets cross our fingers and see if it works). thank you all for responding; I would love to hear more( it helps me put it into perspective from non objective standpoints). thank you

                    Comment

                    Unconfigured Ad Widget

                    Collapse
                    Working...
                    X