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Community Discharge - California

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    Community Discharge - California

    Can anyone enlighten me on "Community Discharge" int the state of California? I am getting nowhere with my attorney and anytime I reach out to them it's another charge.

    Here's some history. I am married, but I solely filed chapter 13 without my husband. This is due from advice from my attorney and because my husband's employer would have terminated him for filing. Many of the debts that were included in the plan were joint debts. Due to the stay neither of us were contacted by creditors during our five year plan. (I just made my last $3k payment this month.) At the time that I filed, my attorney told me that my husband wouldn't need to file because of California's "Community Discharge". We were not on a 100% plan, but all priority creditors were paid (HELOC and IRS), and approximately 7% was paid to those non secured creditors that submitted a claim.

    Now my attorney's office is backtracking and telling me that my husband is NOT protected once we are discharged. (Actually the only person that will respond to me is an assistant in his office - if I want to talk to my attorney, it's more money above and beyond the almost $6k I have paid him already.) I was under the impression that community discharge, discharged both spouses in a chapter 13 as long as they stay married. I can't get a straight answer from them. They asked me if he had any debts that were his alone. I honestly can't remember, but it seem implausible that I could've included any debts that were in his name alone in a BK that was in my name only. In addition, if he did have debts in his name alone, we have not received any statements or any efforts of collections since I filed for BK. Why would a stay from my BK prevent creditors from collecting on accounts that are only in my husband’s name?

    Can anyone clarify the following:

    1. If one spouse files Chapter 13, would the non filing spouses' debts in their name alone be affected by the stay?

    2. If one spouse files chapter 13 in the state of California and includes joint debts that were NOT 100% paid (but were priority claims), does the "community discharge" benefit the non filing spouse?

    After clawing through the last five years, nursing old vehicles with over 200k and 100k miles, failing appliances, leaking roofs, and my husband work on average 6 days a week but usually 7, hospitalizations, etc. we are burnt out emotionally and physically. To hear that we are still on the hook for even more is too much too bear. I am really hoping for a light at the end of the tunnel.


    #2
    After your discharge, creditors can sue your husband for his share of community debt, regardless of whose name it is in. However, if they get a judgment, they cannot collect from community property, they can only get at his separate property if he has any. Also, if your marriage ends by death or divorce, your husband will no longer have any protection from your discharge, even for assets that were once community property because they cease to be community property when the marriage ends.

    My understanding is that it is rare for a creditor to try to go after a spouse for debt in the other spouse's name.

    If creditors contact your husband and he has no separate property, he should write to them and tell them that your BK discharge prevents collection of community property and that he has no separate property. That might discourage them filing a lawsuit.
    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you LadyInTheRed - I sincerely appreciate your response, but I just don't have enough legal knowledge to understand.


      After your discharge, creditors can sue your husband for his share of community debt, regardless of whose name it is in.
      Does this mean that if a joint account was discharged that was not paid 100%, that he can be sued for the remaining balance or for the full balance?

      However, if they get a judgment, they cannot collect from community property, they can only get at his separate property if he has any.
      What's the definition of "community property"? Is that money, or only property like a house or something that is only in his name? Could this mean possible liens on our home?

      I'm still confused as to why he has not been contacted by any creditors ever since the stay went into affect five years ago. (Even for those accounts that are solely in his name.)

      What about those creditors that didn't file at all? I'm assuming that they can come after him too?

      I don't understand why our attorney originally advised us to go this route, and I don't understand what the advantage of "community discharge" is. I was just flabbergasted and full of absolute despair when I found this out. I asked about the attorney's office what our options were or if my husband could do a 7. They advised that he wouldn't qualify,nor did they offer up any suggestions. I think I need to find a new attorney. I don't trust any of them and don't know how to go about finding a new one. The one I used has the highest yelp reviews, but there are some reviews that were not factored in to yelp that have similar complaints too. . Thanks again.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Jaded49 View Post
        Thank you LadyInTheRed - I sincerely appreciate your response, but I just don't have enough legal knowledge to understand.


        After your discharge, creditors can sue your husband for his share of community debt, regardless of whose name it is in.
        Does this mean that if a joint account was discharged that was not paid 100%, that he can be sued for the remaining balance or for the full balance?
        I believe he can be sued for 50% of the debt that was community debt. If your BK paid more than 50% of the debt, then they can only sue him for what is unpaid.

        Originally posted by Jaded49 View Post
        However, if they get a judgment, they cannot collect from community property, they can only get at his separate property if he has any.
        What's the definition of "community property"? Is that money, or only property like a house or something that is only in his name? Could this mean possible liens on our home?
        All of your assets are either community property or separate property. Community property is income earned from the efforts of either spouse during marriage and assets acquired using that income. Separate property is assets acquired before marriage, gifts and inheritances whether received before or during marriage and income earned on separate property without significant effort by the owning spouse (e.g., if one spouse owned a business before marriage, making its assets separate property, income from that business may be part or all community property if the spouse actively runs the business. If somebody else runs the business, and the spouse simply collects the profits, then that income is separate property). Sometimes, separate property can become community property, either by written agreement by the spouses or contributions to the property from the community property. For example, I live in California and bought my house a year before I was married. But, my mortgage payments in that year went mostly to pay interest. In 10 years of marriage, my income has been used to pay mortgage and that has resulted in a lot of equity. Since my income during marriage is community property, every payment of principal results in some of the house becoming community property. While we could do calculations to determine how much is community and how much is my separate property, I know that most of my home is now community property.

        Originally posted by Jaded49 View Post
        I'm still confused as to why he has not been contacted by any creditors ever since the stay went into affect five years ago. (Even for those accounts that are solely in his name.)
        Joint debtors are protected by the stay. Perhaps your attorney listed the accounts in his name on your petition.

        Originally posted by Jaded49 View Post
        What about those creditors that didn't file at all? I'm assuming that they can come after him too?
        Yes, I believe they can.

        Originally posted by Jaded49 View Post
        I don't understand why our attorney originally advised us to go this route, and I don't understand what the advantage of "community discharge" is. I was just flabbergasted and full of absolute despair when I found this out. I asked about the attorney's office what our options were or if my husband could do a 7. They advised that he wouldn't qualify,nor did they offer up any suggestions. I think I need to find a new attorney. I don't trust any of them and don't know how to go about finding a new one. The one I used has the highest yelp reviews, but there are some reviews that were not factored in to yelp that have similar complaints too. . Thanks again.
        The advantage of the community discharge is that as long as you are both married, none of the income earned by either of you while you live in California or another CP state can be garnished to pay either of your debts that existed before you filed BK and no judgement liens can be filed against your community property for those debts. A creditor is less likely to file a lawsuit if they know there are no assets they can collect. After 5 years, most creditors probably sold the debt. If the buyers sue your husband, it may be very easy to settle for pennies on the dollar if he has no separate property.

        Originally posted by Jaded49 View Post
        I was under the impression that community discharge, discharged both spouses in a chapter 13 as long as they stay married.
        That is true if your husband has no separate property.

        Is it possible that your attorney looked at your and your husband's debts and assets and determined everything was community? Check your petition. There are places next to each asset and debt to indicate they are community. If your husband did not want to file because he feared losing his job, perhaps the attorney gave the only advice he could give to a couple with debt problems when one of them refuses to file BK. Did he tell you that an employer cannot legally fire somebody for filing BK? He should have. But, he also should have pointed out that an employer who wants to fire you for an illegal reason, will probably find a legal way to fire you anyway.

        There really is no reason for you to look for another attorney at this point. Let your attorney do the little work that is left to get your discharge. What's done is done. Your husband may never hear a word from a creditor. If he does, he can contact a different attorney. Yelp is not a great way to determine the quality of an attorney. If the need arises, your husband should interview more than one attorney until he finds one he trusts.

        By the way: CONGRATULATIONS ON COMPLETING YOUR PLAN! That is a great accomplishment that you should celebrate. Stop worrying about what might happen. You can deal with what happens in the future if and when it happens. In the meantime, start saving for a rainy day, whether it's a threatening letter from a creditor or something else.
        Last edited by LadyInTheRed; 07-29-2016, 06:36 PM.
        LadyInTheRed is in the black!
        Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
        $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

        Comment


          #5
          LadyInTheRed - Wow! Thank you so very much for taking the time to provide such a detailed response. I sincerely appreciate it. I will definitely be checking the petition.

          Comment

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