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13 Disposable Income ??

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  • 13 Disposable Income ??

    What my disposable income will not cover my house and car payments (secured Debts) ??

    Does it mean a dismissal?

    When I add up our living expenses (utilities, food, daycare, etc.) there is not enough left over to cover the cars and the house? Our lawyer said we were not candidates for CH. 7 because of our income, but that Ch. 13 was perfect for our situation.
    Last edited by orl1966; 02-02-2009, 11:07 PM. Reason: forgot to add details

  • #2
    Youre not giving enough details for starters.

    How much are you in the negative?

    What values are you using when you look at all of your budget?

    Do you have a second mortgage?

    How much time has passed by when you signed the loans for the cars?
    As legal advice must be tailored to the specific circumstances of each case, and laws are constantly changing, nothing provided herein should be used as a substitute for the advice of competent legal counsel.

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    • #3
      House is worth ~$300,000
      1st mtg $319,000
      2nd mtg $79,000
      3rd mtg $131,000

      Cars
      1) NADA $9,000 - owe $15,000 - owned it 3 1/2 yrs
      2) NADA $20,000 - owe $29,000 - owned 1 1/2 yrs.

      Unsecured CC Debt is ~$60,000

      I know the 2 mortgages will be stripped and the one car will be crammed down and payment adjusted, but even with the new lower payments I don't have enough to pay both cars and the first mortgage. I'm at least ~$2000 short.
      Does this mean I can't do ch. 13? or are the secured lien holders (1st mortgage and Car) forced to take reduced payments?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by orl1966 View Post
        House is worth ~$300,000
        1st mtg $319,000
        2nd mtg $79,000
        3rd mtg $131,000

        Cars
        1) NADA $9,000 - owe $15,000 - owned it 3 1/2 yrs
        2) NADA $20,000 - owe $29,000 - owned 1 1/2 yrs.
        You are very far upside down on all your secured assets. Can you help us understand why are you trying to keep them all by filing Ch 13?

        Unsecured CC Debt is ~$60,000
        Are you saying that even without making the cc payments, you are still short $2K making all the payments for your assets?

        I know the 2 mortgages will be stripped...
        Be careful here. The ability to strip the mortgages depends on having an excellent bk lawyer and a willing bk court judge. Don't assume anything without confirming it with an experienced Ch 13 lawyer first.

        ...and the one car will be crammed down and payment adjusted...
        Yes, your car that was purchased more than 910 days ago can be crammed down to its current market value.

        Does this mean I can't do ch. 13? or are the secured lien holders (1st mortgage and Car) forced to take reduced payments?
        Your secured lenders are *NOT* forced to take reduced payments under the current bk law. Even though this is under discussion in the current Congress, it could take months or years before anything is done about cramming down mortgages and newer cars to their current value - if ever.

        It worries me that you are more than $2K upside down even if you file Ch 13. How much total gross and net income are you bringing in each month? Did you file Ch 7 within the last eight years and that's why you have to file Ch 13 now?

        Sometimes if assets are more than we can afford, we are forced to make very hard choices. Typically those choices are (1) find a way to make more income, or (2) surrender assets at filing until asset payments + utilities + living expenses equal less than net income.

        Wanting to keep assets you can't afford won't make your finances healthy again. As hard as it is to consider, you may have to make some hard choices ahead to get a truly fresh financial start that has a long-term chance of succeeding after filing Ch 7 or Ch 13 bankruptcy.
        I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

        06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
        06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
        07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
        10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
        01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
        09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
        06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
        08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

        10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
        Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by orl1966 View Post
          House is worth ~$300,000
          1st mtg $319,000
          2nd mtg $79,000
          3rd mtg $131,000
          This is what makes me sick and what got me in trouble years ago! Why do banks loan out more then the value? We got so upside down on our house we had to do chapter 7 b/c we could not afford to sell it or make the payments! Sorry for your troubles!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by orl1966 View Post
            When I add up our living expenses (utilities, food, daycare, etc.) there is not enough left over to cover the cars and the house? Our lawyer said we were not candidates for CH. 7 because of our income, but that Ch. 13 was perfect for our situation.
            When we first filed I came up with the same situation. We were not canditates for ch. 7 because of our income. I added up all of our living expenses, house cars, daycare, utilities, food, etc, and in the end there wasn't enough money. Well, that's because I used "our" numbers. Once the lawyer showed us the means test and what we are "allowed" for expenses, somehow there was enough money left over to make the $750 chapter 13 payment each month. Yes, you will have to budget things, luxuries- ie: Starbucks,hair high lights,etc, are no longer in the budget. We have a family of 6 and our trustee allows us $45 a month for haircuts! We'll make it work. I'm learning to Ebay to get some extra cash flowing.

            Comment

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