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Have to file, have to go pro se, *sigh*

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    Have to file, have to go pro se, *sigh*

    My situation is detailed below. The only real question I have is can anyone point me to a resource for filing pro se that goes through every step, what I need to do, etc...? And how much does it cost to do it yourself? I assume very little, but I'm guessing it's more than $0.

    I fell behind on bills quite some time ago. My husband and I have been barely, and I mean BARELY, scraping by for the last few years. It's just one hit after another. I have several credit cards we basically had to ignore. They have long since gone to collection agencies, we have had no possible way to pay them. It doesn't amount to a lot, around $20k total. Most of that was actually discharged, not sure if that's the right word, this last year. The largest single card simply said "we give up" and wrote it off. Reported it to the IRS, but we were so poor that it was exempted from our 2014 taxes. That took about 15k off the total outstanding debt. I know, that's not the best way to do things, should have filed long ago, etc... I really don't care about my credit rating at this point, seriously the last thing I'm worried about.

    Today I get served a lawsuit from one of the remaining cards. They're going to sue me for $2k. Couldn't believe it. So I have to respond one way or another or they'll have a judgement against me. I have no job right now, got fired from the last one before I had been there long enough to qualify for unemployment. So I've got zero income, my husband's income is nothing great, we're WELL below the median income. And a few months ago my car broke down for the last time, too expensive to even think about repairing it even if I had money, so it was sold for scrap. So now I have no way to get a job until we can scrape enough together to buy some cheap crappy car, who knows how long that will take. The only real asset is our house, but it's jointly owned and not a ton of equity or anything so I believe that it's basically impossible for them to take it in BK. Bank account is joint and there's never much in there, basically enough to live on until the next check. No tax refund coming, no IRA, no savings, no retirement, no life insurance on me.

    The credit card debt is solely in my name. My husband had to file chapter 7 ten years ago due to a failed business. Literally this month it will finally fall off his credit history. And now I have to file. But none of the outstanding debt is in his name. We want to keep the house, the mortgage is current with no issues there. We have only one car, in his name not mine. So I'm thinking this should be fairly straight forward, but I don't know.

    I know for $2k I can probably talk them down to pennies on the dollar and just settle, but I don't know where that money would come from. And there's one or two (have to check) other cards that could theoretically do the same thing. It's a pathetic amount to declare BK for but I don't know that we have any choice. Our house is in lousy shape, selling it for any real gain is a pipe dream. I know because the identical house next door just sold and it went for not much more than what we owe on ours, and it's in nicer shape. The mortgage is at a stupid low rate, like 2.8%, and not very high principle, so our mortgage payment is cheaper than any rental that I've seen in the area. So we literally can't afford to leave it.

    Anyway, thanks for any advice you guys can give. I'm really stressing out right now.

    #2
    Hi KsDunn!!!

    Have you checked your State's BK Exemptions? Where we live, the Homestead is protected in its entirety against the debts of one spouse filing alone.

    Do you possibly qualify to use Legal Aid? That's a thought for you.

    Either way, it wouldn't hurt for you to have 2-3 Consults with attnys. You could learn a lot.

    Hopefully you're not under the gun with that suit and have some time to prep.

    Comment


      #3
      I am almost in the exact same boat as you. I was served a court summons 3 days ago from a citi bank credit card 3 years ago totally $1225. I had a consult with a attorney yesterday and his flat fee was $1,700 plus $335 filing fee. I cannot afford him so I looked into legal aid. I completed a one hour intake screening over the phone and we just barely qualified below the poverty level. It is now being forwarded to our local legal aid office and since I have less then 30 days to respond to the court summons they marked it emergency. They also waiving the fee for the credit counseling course. I was also informed that I still might not qualify, the local office will inform me that. If we don't qualify I will try to file myself.

      Legal aid would be a good place to start for you, good luck!


      Comment


        #4
        Hi. I received a pro se 7 discharge a few weeks ago. Filing pro se was incredibly daunting but, with a lot of research , elbow grease, and the help of this forum, I was able to do it. I used a very useful software package to create and file all the paperwork. It took A LOT of the pressure off me when it came time to actually filling out the paperwork . I don't think I can put the name of the software here without violating forum rules so send me a message and I'll give you the name.

        The package made completing the paperwork extremely easy. It explained what needed to go where and even ran error checking (think Turbo Tax) after each section. One caveat, though: you still have to understand what the terms mean (priority debt, non priority, etc) . So doing your homework is key. Use this forum often

        Good luck !
        Last edited by jgeddes; 06-20-2015, 04:26 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks, I will look into legal aid.

          I pulled my credit report and only have one other balance still hanging over me. It's for a good bit more, but of course I could theoretically pay it off for 50% or less. I see also why they filed the lawsuit, the statute of limitations is about to expire. For both the old cards they will be unable to sue in a few more months. I'm hoping I can stall, one way or another, the current lawsuit to the point where I know the other card can no longer sue me, then the decision is a bit different.

          My house mortgage situation may be a tad bit better than I thought, we're going to look into a HELOC as a possible way to pay stuff off and get out from under this. Assuming anyone will approve such a thing for us.

          I still have a sinking feeling that BK is the only viable option. We'll see.

          Comment


            #6
            Just an observation but I believe once the lawsuit was filed...the SOL clock stopped so stalling won't help.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by df04527 View Post
              Just an observation but I believe once the lawsuit was filed...the SOL clock stopped so stalling won't help.

              That is true. An SOL is the deadline to file the lawsuit, not to get a judgement. But, I think KsDunn's point was that if s/he can stall the lawsuit until the SOL runs on the other debts, then s/he can decide whether to file BK or try to settle. KsDunn, the expiration of the SOL is not a guaranty that a creditor or someone they sell the debt to will not sue you. If they did, you would have to file an answer asserting the expiration of the SOL as a defense. If they sue you for a debt discharged in BK and you sent the creditor a copy of your discharge order, any creditor that is not a complete idiot would dismiss the case immediately. The expiration of the SOL is not as strong as a discharge order. It may still be a good enough reason to not file BK, but just make sure you understand the difference in the protection of an SOL vs. a BK discharge.
              LadyInTheRed is in the black!
              Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
              $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
                I think KsDunn's point was that if s/he can stall the lawsuit until the SOL runs on the other debts, then s/he can decide whether to file BK or try to settle.
                That's correct, I was talking about the other collection agency that hasn't yet sued me. At least if they have I haven't gotten notification of it yet. If I was out from under that and this current lawsuit is the only thing I have to worry about it might change the direction I go.

                KsDunn, the expiration of the SOL is not a guaranty that a creditor or someone they sell the debt to will not sue you. If they did, you would have to file an answer asserting the expiration of the SOL as a defense. If they sue you for a debt discharged in BK and you sent the creditor a copy of your discharge order, any creditor that is not a complete idiot would dismiss the case immediately. The expiration of the SOL is not as strong as a discharge order. It may still be a good enough reason to not file BK, but just make sure you understand the difference in the protection of an SOL vs. a BK discharge.
                True, anyone can sue anyone, and if I talk to a lawyer or legal aid I'll ask about that. But I believe once the SOL has expired it would be rather pointless to sue. All I'd have to do is show up in court and defend myself with the paperwork showing the last account activity was over 4 years ago (that's the SOL in my state) and there's no way they win. I think it's technically a violation of the FDCPA as well, and I could counter-sue for harassment (or something like that).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by KsDunn View Post
                  True, anyone can sue anyone, and if I talk to a lawyer or legal aid I'll ask about that. But I believe once the SOL has expired it would be rather pointless to sue. All I'd have to do is show up in court and defend myself with the paperwork showing the last account activity was over 4 years ago (that's the SOL in my state) and there's no way they win. I think it's technically a violation of the FDCPA as well, and I could counter-sue for harassment (or something like that).
                  Yes, that is true. If you are willing to risk having to go to court to defend a lawsuit, relying on the SOL may be a good option for you.

                  It may seem pointless to sue, but it happens, often years after the SOL has expired and the debt is sold to a 3rd party debt buyer. They are probably counting on the debtor not responding so that they can get a default judgement and go after wages and bank accounts. Yes, it is a violation of the FDCPA to sue for a debt that the creditor knows is past the SOL. But, debt buyers often have very little information on the debts they buy, so it may be hard to prove that they knew that the SOL has run. If a creditor sues for a discharge debt, they tend to take a letter with a copy of the discharge order and a demand that the lawsuit be dismissed pretty seriously. The phrase, "or I will file a complaint in bankruptcy court for your violation of the Court's permanent injunction against collecting a discharged debt" is pretty powerful.
                  LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                  Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                  $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thought I would post the resolution to my issue.

                    I ended up getting a lawyer. He was quite confident that he could win the case, and the cost was fairly low ($350). So I rolled the dice. The court date got moved back a few times, so we sat in limbo for a while. About a week before the court date my lawyer calls me and says that the collection agency had withdrawn their complaint. He said technically they could sue again, but it was unlikely. I haven't heard anything further from the collection agency. My next step is to dispute their entry on my credit report. If they don't have the paperwork to back up a court case I'm thinking they can't substantiate their claim to the credit agencies either. In about a month, maybe less I'm not sure of the exact date, the SOL will expire on all my old debts.

                    The other debt that I was worried about did end up going to another collection agency. They sent a statement and I responded with the standard form letter asking for validation of the debt. I was basically trying to buy time until the SOL expired. They responded with another identical statement, and a short letter asking for "clarification" about what I was disputing. The letter I sent was quite clear, and asked for specific information from them. They provided none of it. Interesting thing though, in their response they flat out said that this was an "old" debt and they would NOT sue me over it. I don't know if that's legally binding, but I'm hanging on to that letter. It's now very close to the SOL timing out anyway. I'm going to wait another month or so, to be sure it's past the SOL, and dispute it through the credit agencies too. They obviously don't have any real paperwork backing up their claim either.

                    Bottom line, for anyone in a similar situation, don't assume they have you by the balls. Feel them out, try to see how much documentation they really have, get very familiar with the applicable parts of the FDCPA, and fight it. These guys are looking for a quick buck and if you seem like too much trouble they'll move along.

                    Comment

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