Chapter 7 became our reality TODAY. Need your help!

[Chrysalis]

I hear you, it sounds like I am overthinking things because I probably am. But I've just started keeping good spreadsheets to figure out WHERE our money goes ... I used to keep good spreadsheets and even half-assed a budget years ago. But things just piled up and for years now, I guess I have been in a state of not knowing what in the world to do, so just doing what I had to do to pay everyone and get by.

The meticulous tracking has every bit as much to do with trying to figure out what we can REALISTICALLY afford post-bk. Even without the cc payments -- we still spend too much money! So I am going to keep up on the spreadsheets anyway ~ might as well have my categories as precise as possible because we are going to need to hand this info to someone, someday. What they do with it & what happens from there ~ I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Thanks again!

[justbroke]

I would certainly keep up the spreadsheet(s)! I still do that to this day. I have been doing it since 2008. It's nice to see what-if scenarios and what happens to your "cash in the bank" when you have some major purchase 8 months in advance. My spreadsheet budget goes out 24 months and accounts for almost everything.

What I was trying to say by overthinking is that the IRS Financial Collection Standards (on which the U.S. Trustee's Allowances are based) are not like any budget that you really want. It's one of the tightest budgets on which you could subject yourself. I see the point of the standards as they don't want the debtor living a life of (relative) luxury at the expense of creditors. But the debtor must make sure that it is a livable budget as well.

If you're like me, you'll find that your budget shortcomings are not food, housing costs, electricity, cell phone, cable, and/or other true living costs. You'll find it's all those times you were lazy and didn't want to cook. It's from all those times that you didn't buy food at a grocery store and plan meals in advance. It's from all those times you spent money on entertainment of one sort or another without looking at the impact (2, 3, 6, 12 months down the line). It's from using the credit cards as a supplemental "income" source "knowing" that you'll just pay it down later. Then, some $120K on credit cards later, you wake up.

I hope that's not your story, but it's worth sharing.

[Chrysalis]

justbroke, I've been thinking of this since you posted: What is "our story"?

And it honestly all boils down to my husband's job. It really, really does.

1) His income is consistent -- but the amount is inconsistent.

Looking back at 2016: His 2-week gross varies by as much as $1,834.65. That is the difference between his lowest check for the year, and his highest. No, that is not due to illness at the lowest, or being off for some period of time. And no, that is not due to a bonus or some other freak occurrence at his highest. These figures do not include any bonuses that he may (or may NOT) get. That is just his base pay -- and yes, it varies that much. This has made it almost impossible to budget. In all of my bankruptcy calculating and considering, this is still a huge issue.

2) His job sucks. I know, I know, everybody's job sucks. Well, almost everyone. ;) But no really -- his job sucks for anyone, let alone anyone with a family. He has been on-call for the past 22 years, and we have been unable to "plan" anything. NO weekends to look forward to. NO schedule. "When he's here, he's here, when he's gone, he's gone." That has been our life. I can look back and see now that this has fueled anxiety and depression for me in ways that I was unable to see before. Depressed does not mean that you lay in bed all day -- not necessarily. Honestly, this was the definition in my mind for quite awhile, so I never thought of myself as "depressed".

What I can now see is that depression can cause you to spend money in all sorts of areas, trying to make yourself feel better. Trying to make things not suck for the kids quite as much. Vacations. Going out to eat. Buying (and trying to follow) all sorts of self-help and nutrition books. Paying a trainer at a gym you CANNOT afford -- but do it anyway, because you feel like such shit inside and it gives you *something to look forward to*.

Then there's the husband, and my thinking: "Oh, he works so hard, he "deserves" this, he "deserves" that." Never wanting to say to him: "No. We absolutely cannot afford that. Yes, dear, I know you've sold your soul to the railroad... It's not enough." Ugh..... do you know how many times in our marriage I've said: "I'll figure it out, like I always do..."

And then there's anxiety. Anxiety can cause you to want to buy NEW things -- not because you "have" to have new things -- but because you don't have to WORRY about them breaking down. When stress & anxiety are ruling your life, when you spend every day in that state -- bad decisions abound, because there is a tendency to do what seems easy at the time, just to make whatever it is go away. ...And yes, as you said -- "I'll deal with it later." Later. Later. Later. But eventually, LATER comes. It has to. And you have to deal with it one way or another.

[Heinon1]

Start by changing banks where you don't have any accounts.Certainly close that Chase checking or savings.Dont pay on the cc and start saving money for your lawyer.

[justbroke]

... And yes, as you said -- "I'll deal with it later." Later. Later. Later. But eventually, LATER comes. It has to. And you have to deal with it one way or another.

People need to hear this. This will let them know that it does happen despite our own good intentions. We always thing we can fix it in the future, but the bill is called due when we're too busy planning the future (or "enjoying" the present). I now admit that I lived for the now and never thought about tomorrow. I'm not even sure I'm cured despite the bankruptcy.

Thank you for your heartfelt post!

[Chrysalis]

And thank you for being here, justbroke. I know you spend a lot of time here trying to help total strangers. I know people come and go over the years, and maybe never even come back to say thanks.

I was thinking to myself after posting yesterday -- that we all sit here and talk about numbers, we talk about laws and technicalities, we use big terms and we speculate about what could happen. There is a lot of worry, and a lot of relief. But I don't see people talk about the emotional / mental part of "how we got here" quite as much. Maybe it's here and I just haven't been around long enough.

You (usually) don't just wake up one day and think, holy crap, I've gotta file bankruptcy. For us, it has been a very long process and years ago, I could not have even imagined it. We were young and invincible, right? I was proud. Sure, we were always spending more than he makes, and sure, we had a lot of debt -- but I felt I managed it well. "Look at me, with my crafty balance transfers and these super-low interest rates." Oh, I never let a store card revolve -- those interest rates are horrible! Yeah, I was super smart. I knew better.

So where did all of that get me? Well, hand me a blue ribbon. I can say that we've never paid anyone late -- EVER. I can say that the highest interest rate we've EVER let revolve is at 18.74% -- and that just happened. Most of our interest rates are much lower than that. I can say that I've maintained a "beautiful" credit score for both of us in the 700's for as long as I can remember. We've got two newer vehicle loans, that we financed for 6 years at 2.5% and 7 years at 2.8% And I can say that we have never been in a position where we had to borrow money from family. Several people in my family cannot say that. I never wanted to be them.

I can also say that the weight of this debt is at times crippling. Suffocating.

I have one mental picture of us buried under a pile of possessions -- Stuff. It's just stuff. There is another mental picture of us, I don't know, running through a field or say, hiking through a forest. Living in a cave. Sitting around a fire. What sounds more enjoyable? And how do we get so far from true happiness? Why does it take a crisis for us to be able to see clearly? For us to be able to slow down?

"It does happen despite our own good intentions." Yes.

I still have moments where I think maybe we can save this situation some other way. I still think maybe we can manage until I get my RN and can start working. My mind is back and forth, back and forth, all the time right now. And the only thing I know for sure at the end of the day is this: Neither option is going to be easy. There is no quick and painless way to get out of this mess.

[Chrysalis]

I've also realized maybe I should stop posting on this thread, because my title is dramatic and that work situation did not pan out AT ALL like he told me it was going to. When I started this thread, Chapter 7 was going to be our ONLY option -- and soon. Based on what he came home and told me about his income. Now... not so much. Things are still very unclear. Taking it one month at a time and looking at the figures.

[Chrysalis]

WOW ~ I came across this paragraph just now in my Psychology textbook, and I had to stop studying so I can share it. I can't believe how well this goes along with what we've been discussing, and what I posted earlier.

I am on the chapter about "Health, Stress, and Coping", where they are explaining the four basic types of conflict:

" #2: Avoidance-avoidance conflicts. The opposite of the approach-approach conflict is the avoidance-avoidance conflict, in which a person has to choose between two undesirable, or negative, events. You can think of this type of conflict as a Catch-22 situation. For example, do you spend the morning in line to register your car, or do you get your car towed because the registration has expired? Because both options in an avoidance-avoidance conflict are unappealing, many people remain undecided and inactive, or "frozen". They don't do anything. Consequently, avoidance-avoidance conflicts are accompanied by a greater degree of perceived stress than are approach-approach conflicts."

[justbroke]

Thanks for the post! This is what we do; we become frozen in our indecisiveness to make progress.