Qualifying dependent for means test plus another question

[multipass]

Sorry for all the questions; we have an appointment with an attorney next Tuesday, and I'll definitely be asking him this stuff, but I'm trying to get a general idea ahead of time.

We've had consultations with two attorneys and got very different answers to one question: whether or not our oldest son qualifies as a dependent. The first attorney (15 years experience) said no way and we'd have to do a CH13; the second attorney (35 years experience, both have similar ratings on avvo) said he definitely does and we qualify for a CH7. Circumstances: son is 22, lives with us, is in school full-time (no job), we pay his expenses other than tuition/fees which he has student loans for, and we claim him as a dependent on our taxes. It's the second attorney we have an upcoming appointment with, btw.

Also, we vacated our house almost a year ago because of major problems with it (will be surrendering it after bank denied short sale) and moved in with my mother-in law. We pay all utilities/household expenses/maintenance/repair in lieu of rent (adds up to about what rent would be in this area); we don't have to count her as part of the household, right? It's counted as a roommate/landlord type situation, correct?

Thanks for any insight/info. I tend to overthink things and stress over them.

[justbroke]

There are so many arguments about "household size" versus what you can actually put on the Means Test. He is your dependent. I had a similar situation with someone in school and 21 at the time. This was not an issue at all. They are a dependent, live at home, and do not contribute to the household income. Even if they did have a job and contributed, you would offset your expenses by their contribution.

As to whether your parent is a household member, that's a question for your attorney. You will probably need to be careful because anything that she "contributes" monetarily to the household may need to be offset.

[multipass]

There are so many arguments about "household size" versus what you can actually put on the Means Test. He is your dependent. I had a similar situation with someone in school and 21 at the time. This was not an issue at all. They are a dependent, live at home, and do not contribute to the household income. Even if they did have a job and contributed, you would offset your expenses by their contribution.

As to whether your parent is a household member, that's a question for your attorney. You will probably need to be careful because anything that she "contributes" monetarily to the household may need to be offset.

Thank you for the info!

'm not sure what constitutes her contributing to the household (she pays her mortgage/homeowners insurance/property taxes - they're all rolled in together, her car payment, her landline phone, her credit cards, and her medical expenses; when we moved in we started paying utilities/maintenance/repairs/household goods because adding 5 people to the house was going to make all of those go way up,, so she doesn't contribute anything that wasn't already hers to pay - I'm just not sure what counts). I also don't really understand offsetting or how it works. If it matters we're in GA and we're under the median income (unless we have to count her income as part of the household but then we'd have a ton more expenses by counting hers too).

Thanks again!

[justbroke]

It seems that you can document and there's a clear delineation of contributions. Do you have a formal lease?

[multipass]

We didn't do a formal lease; we intended to, but everything went downhill quickly with our old house and in the madness of getting everything/everyone moved out (plus some medical stuff that happened afterward) it just slipped everyone's mind. Would it be worth printing one up now or is it better to let it lie at this point?

[justbroke]

I don't know the answer to the question about establishing a lease at this point. It's probably a good idea because you need a documented lease for many things (putting kids in school, registering vehicles, changing license...).

[leonel9]

This may be a waste of time at this point, but I'd ask the attorney(s) who say your son cannot be included what the rationale is. A full time student 24 and under may be listed as a dependent on your tax return. You already include your son on your return. The means test generally mirrors your tax return exemptions. What are we missing here?

[multipass]

I don't know the answer to the question about establishing a lease at this point. It's probably a good idea because you need a documented lease for many things (putting kids in school, registering vehicles, changing license...).

I'll double check with the attorney to make sure it won't hurt anything to draw one up in terms of timing, but you're right that it'd be good to have just in case. When we moved DH changed his address with his employer so was able to use a pay stub for his legal address change, and my name is on the internet bill (MIL has never used internet) which they accepted for my legal address change. We homeschool our kids which is a state matter here instead of a district matter.

Thanks again for the info!

[multipass]

This may be a waste of time at this point, but I'd ask the attorney(s) who say your son cannot be included what the rationale is. A full time student 24 and under may be listed as a dependent on your tax return. You already include your son on your return. The means test generally mirrors your tax return exemptions. What are we missing here?

While we were there so much info was being thrown at me at once that I didn't question what he said, but when I got home and started researching more I saw that, generally speaking, if a child is a dependent for tax purposes then they qualify, so I emailed him to ask. His response was, basically, that unless a child is under 18 or in high school (essentially the same rules as for child support) they don't count on the means test. When we met with the 2nd attorney he said son would qualify with no problem.

Speaking of the two attorneys... when we were at the first office everything was going so fast that it was hard to take it all in, so I was dumb and t just took what he said at face value and paid a retainer fee on the spot (even though I KNOW better than to jump on the first offer without getting others). It's been four months with zero activity or contact on either part; do I need to do anything to officially end things with the first attorney before signing with the 2nd?