Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Realtor Calls and Says I am doing a short sale

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Realtor Calls and Says I am doing a short sale

    This is weird, FYI I have read pages upon pages in this forum and learned a great deal. I wanted to say thank you to all the people who contribute.

    So my story....

    September 2016 my wife and I file Chapter 7, I got laid off and we had a lot of debt. It was stressing us out and when I got laid off I figured now is the time to get this fixed. We were going to do Chapter 13 but since I was out of work the attorney said we should do Chapter 7 because who knows how long I will be out of work.

    We get everything together and file, we have our court date in October 2016, we receive notice of discharge December 20th, 2016. It was a no asset bankruptcy. Everything went smoothly no issues.

    We said we wanted to keep our house, Chase put us on a forbearance plan. I knew about the balloon payment at the end but we took our chances and agreed. i ended up being out of work for almost 6 months give or take a few weeks.I took a short term (three month) contract just to bring some money in (wife was still working but I make the bulk of the household income)

    That ended, a few more months go by and I get another job.

    Fast forward to 2-3 weeks ago.... I get a phone call from a realtor. He says "you were probably expecting my call but I am working for the trustee so and so and we got your information from your attorney so and so" he got the name of our attorney correct, wasn't sure about the trustee I had to go look that up on Pacer.

    I ignore it thinking it was a scam because we were almost at the 10 month since discharge mark (I didn't know to check to see if our case was closed)

    He calls back a few days later and I thought to myself "scammers usually don't call twice" so I called him back. He explained who he was, and I was really confused and kept saying "uh ok?".He said he was coming out on a certain date and he wanted somebody home at the time. I said "um I have no idea why you are calling me" he repeats the information he said earlier and I said "I have not received any official communication about this and I need to contact my attorney and do some investigation. He said that was ok and to call him back later.

    I register on Pacer (that was how I found this forum, googling how to find out who your trustee is). I go on there and find our case is still open.... I call the trustee using the information contained in our case file. He answers the phone and I did not identify who I was but said some realtor called me and I need to find out if this is legit. He says "was it so and so?" I said it was and he said to cooperate with him. I say "shouldn't I get something official or at least a call from you saying some realtor was going to come out to my house". He says "no", I was like ok. Then I called my attorney and tell them what is going on and they schedule a meeting with my wife and I.

    I call the guy back and said I checked into him and what the appointment was that he wanted to come to our home. He said you are doing a short sale and we need to look at some things, take measurements, we will schedule some viewings.

    I said "what??? I am not short selling my home, it's not even in foreclosure. He says "you have a deal with your bank?" I said I am working some stuff out (I did not reveal exactly what was going on with my lender).

    I said I will speak with my attorney first after I call my lender. I call the guy I was working with on a loan modification. I started the process after I got a new job. The bank put us on a forbearance plan and i would call them once a month to verify if I was working or looking for a job. So I am taking to the representative I spoke with a couple of times before and tell him what is going on. He tells me "that makes no sense, we don't want your house. We make more money if you get back to work and start paying your mortgage again". I told him "yeah that makes no sense and I got no warning this was going on. He checks his files and said nobody contacted them about a short sale and I better get with my attorney.

    I then get an email from the realtor and says I need to fill out two forms (attached) to give to him when he gets there. I read the documents and really get irritated. One was a hardship letter that says:

    "the undersigned parties authorize some title company blah blah:

    1. we filed bankruptcy under Chapter 7 and the case is currently open.
    2. I/We have stated our intention to surrender the real property commonly known as stated above
    3. I/We have no desire to refinance or modify the mortgage


    The letter basically says I don't want the house and I don't want to work with the lender. I got really mad because I just told the guy I am working with my lender, the home isn't in foreclosure and I already submitted paperwork for a loan modification. I told the bank I would have most of the balloon payment but the representative said they don't expect us to have it all, that is when you start a loan modification if you don't have all the back payments. I told the lender I wanted to end the forbearance plan after a loan mod is approved, I can afford to pay the mortgage and extra to catch back up. He asked me to send him a new application, fax all the paperwork needed to him and he will get started on it immediately. Said he can get it back to me in two weeks (that was almost two weeks ago so I am going to call him this week)

    My wife and I meet with our attorney and I explain what happened. I saved the two voice mails, played them, I printed out the emails and documents and I started taking notes of the date and time for every single communication I made with this realtor. He told me that the trustee is getting the value of our home determined and went over homestead exemption, etc. I said I understood that but this realtor is talking like a short sale is a done deal, he even said my attorney knows about it as well as my lender.

    I got really mad when the realtor said those two things because our attorney said he never heard from the trustee. I told our attorney that it feels like the realtor was hoping we were desperate and would jump on a short sale. Our house dropped in value almost 20K since we bought it a while back and going off the estimated value off Zillow (I registered and entered in extra money) we would only have 20K in equity and that's if somebody offered us full asking price. Well below the homestead exemption.

    So anyways I email the realtor back and said I was not signing any forms (especially since he wasn't getting it that I don't want to short sale) he said he would let our attorney and trustee work that out.

    I am stressing out because I am not sure I want to even speak to this guy when he comes over. I said I would cooperate but I am only cooperating when it comes to an appraisal. None of this short sale nonsense.

    Since we are approaching the 1 year mark since the Chapter 7 Discharge I am guessing this is a last attempt to get something before closing the case.


  • #2
    If your case is still open and you surrendered the home, then the Trustee is still administering the case. The Trustee has as much time as they please to "liquidate" the bankruptcy estate. Some Trustees attempt something known as a "carveout." The banks allow the Trustees to sell the property and "pay" the Trustee a hefty commission (typically some seemingly arbitrary number such as $10,000).

    You are going to need your Attorney to figure out just what is going on with the Trustee.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh my God what a joke. The trustee sounds evil. Kickbacks to a trustee to short sell a home that has only exempted equity? How does that fly? I had my 341 and my attorney checked we intended to keep our home here in Texas. We are 6 months in arrears on the PITI/ mortgage, and my income on my schedules puts our PITI payment at 60% of my income. There is large equity in the home, which is exempted in Texas. However, my fear was that the trustee would see the arrears, the 60% of income PITI, and would do something similar to this- keep the case open indefinitely and await an imminent foreclosure or sale due to the obviously unaffordable mortgage and arrears. Instead, we were gifted with a No Asset filing on the day of our 341.

      I am redoubling back back on my “thank you God” after hearing your story. It’s amazing how trustee-dependent much of this process can be.

      I sincerely hope hope you can keep your home- how the actions of your case trustee are considered ethical, I have no clue.

      Comment


      • #4
        I didn’t surrender my house and stated we intended to keep it. My mortgage is only 25 percent of my take home income and that isn’t even including my wife’s income.

        Comment


        • #5
          Was your statement of intention that you would reaffirm the debt? There are really only three options; surrender, redeem, and reaffirm. Many attorneys put "stay and pay" on the statement of intentions even though that's not a real option in most jurisdictional... but most lenders don't complain about that election.
          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

          Comment


          • #6
            I need to look at the statement again, back when we did it my wife and I were an emotional mess but we did emphasize we wanted to keep the house and said it again at the bankruptcy court meeting.

            Today the realtor came by and I told him that I was not doing a short sale, he said he was just going to take some pictures for an appraisal but was not going to move forward with anything else until my attorney and the trustee gets things sorted out. He did say our case seemed different because usually he gets a list of people from the trustee but this time he only got my phone number.

            Comment


            • #7
              A list of people from the trustee. Sounds like quite a relationship. So it sounds like a trustee can just do what they want with your house, even if selling it gives no money to creditors?

              Comment


              • #8
                If this goes forward, you might ask your lawyer about filing a Ch 13 to get caught up on the arrears and save your home. You have your discharge from the Ch 7. Whether it’s possible to file a 13 before your 7 is closed, I dunno.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ChaptainHook View Post
                  A list of people from the trustee. Sounds like quite a relationship. So it sounds like a trustee can just do what they want with your house, even if selling it gives no money to creditors?
                  ChaptainHook, the Trustee sells it with a carveout which does give creditors money. If the Trustee carves out $10K, the trustee earns 25% of $5,000 ($1,250) plus 10% of the next $5,000 ($500). The rest ($8,250) would go to the creditors.

                  Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                  Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                  Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                  I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Unfortunately a Chapter 13 can not save a home that is part of a Chapter 7 bankruptcy estate, and especially a home that is to be "administered" by the Chapter 7 Trustee. This is an odd case, but it is also something within the authority of the Chapter 7 trustee to pursue (if the trustee can generate something for creditors). This was a popular way that Florida Chapter 7 Trustees would generate money for the bankruptcy estate. I don't know how popular it is nowadays.
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I had to familiarize myself with a carve out. I am so glad I didn’t know about this before because I doubt I would have slept. The debtor in these situations probably sees all their equity lost in a short sale, and the lien holder cooperates directly for a myriad of reasons. I found this link explaining a carve out if any are interested.

                      https://www.communitybankinginsights...te-collateral/

                      To follow up on the 13, can a debtor CONVERT to a 13 after receiving a discharge in a 7, but before the Ch 7 case is closed? I doubt it as that would give the debtor control of his estate which was already in the control of the trustee. But the code seems to read you can covert at any time?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Soranos, I am sorry you are having to deal with this. I have a couple of thoughts.

                        Was your equity in the home exempted on Schedule C? If not, I wonder whether Schedule C can be amended at this point. Ask your attorney.

                        It sounds like you are already working with the mortgage company. Make sure they know what is going on and that they will not agree to a short sale. I suggest you talk to somebody as high up as possible in the company to make sure your account is noted in a manner that will prevent them from agreeing to a short sale. Any modification agreement or catch up payment should be contingent on the mortgage company's guaranty that they will not agree to a short sale by the trustee. Check with your attorney though, because you don't want to do anything that could get you into trouble for not cooperating with the trustee. But, you also don't want to throw money away catching up on the mortgage if you are going to lose the house anyway.

                        I think it is outrageous that a trustee can do this. I hope you will keep us updated on how things go.
                        Last edited by LadyInTheRed; 10-24-2017, 03:52 PM.
                        LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                        Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                        $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                        Comment

                        Unconfigured Ad Widget

                        Collapse
                        Working...
                        X