Zales Jewelry Question

[BKinGA]

I am filing a chapter 7 and have a balance of approximately 1200 with Zales.

I dont currently have all of the jewelry now that makes up their current balance,(gave some as presents and lost 1) so even if I agreed to turn in what I have, I would still come up short.

What are my options?

Thanks for your help.

[allavdj]

Do you have room in your exceptions for the jewelery? If not, it all depends on how much of a stickler the trustee is and if Zales makes any demands. It might almost be better if the Zales account went to a collection agency to remove Zales's stake in the matter.

Worst case scenario...Zales shows up at 341 and makes the case and the trustee orders the Jewelery returned. If you can't produce the jewelery (or pay off the account) you would be held in contempt of court and you would have a criminal offense to deal with as well.

[justbroke]

Do you have room in your exceptions for the jewelery? If not, it all depends on how much of a stickler the trustee is and if Zales makes any demands. It might almost be better if the Zales account went to a collection agency to remove Zales's stake in the matter.

Worst case scenario...Zales shows up at 341 and makes the case and the trustee orders the Jewelery returned. If you can't produce the jewelery (or pay off the account) you would be held in contempt of court and you would have a criminal offense to deal with as well.

That's one way to scare a debtor. Criminal contempt of court? I don't think we need to go there.

You can redeem the jewelry by paying the current value. Or, you can return what you have and redeem what is missing.

I would try to exempt the jewelry with an exemption or the wildcard. if you don't have any exemptions left, think about redemption. Then, you may want to think about surrendering what you have and redeeming the rest.

You are no way near any talk about criminal contempt of court at this stage.

[philslyn]

I agree with justbroke

[TEW]

I redeemed jewelry they wanted $600.00 for a ring I paid them $100 and they excepted it. look for the jewelry on ebay to get a far price and make the offer.
you do not have to pay what is owed garage sale prices.

[TEW]

dup

[BKinGA]

That's one way to scare a debtor. Criminal contempt of court? I don't think we need to go there.

You can redeem the jewelry by paying the current value. Or, you can return what you have and redeem what is missing.

I would try to exempt the jewelry with an exemption or the wildcard. if you don't have any exemptions left, think about redemption. Then, you may want to think about surrendering what you have and redeeming the rest.

You are no way near any talk about criminal contempt of court at this stage.

Can I use the jewelry exemption and wildcard exemption even for jewelry which the creditor has a secured interest?

Also when does any negotiation regarding any remaining balance to be redeemed occur? During or after the 341 meeting? And how long to I have to make the arrangements and also pay them?

Thanks for your help.

[justbroke]

Can I use the jewelry exemption and wildcard exemption even for jewelry which the creditor has a secured interest?

Actually, you're right. But it's that you would need to avoid the lien, and you can't do that on that type of purchase. Your only option is to Motion to Value, to make it worth the current market value, and then redeem it. Or, just return it.

Also when does any negotiation regarding any remaining balance to be redeemed occur? During or after the 341 meeting? And how long to I have to make the arrangements and also pay them?

You usually redeem within so many days.. by law. I think it's 60 days, and you need to do it before your case closes.

[BKinGA]

Okay here are my follow-up questions (and again I really thank you for your comments)

Can a Motion to Value be filed on a Chapter 7? I searched the web, but the references I found were for a Chapter 13.

If it can be filed with a 7, is that filed as a part of the Chapter 7 or seperately and if seperately is that held after the meeting of creditors or does it cause the 341 meeting to be postponed?

Or if I dont file the motion to value, and return the jewelry can I use the price that I paid for them plus tax?

And finally when does any negotiation occur on the remaining balance to be redeemed? During or after the 341 meeting?

[allavdj]

I was simply stating the absolute worst case scenario. If the trustee/court ordered that you return the jewelery (maybe they suspect some sort of fraud) then you would -have- to return it. If you refused or couldn't, you -would- be in contempt.

Since we don't like to talk about negative things here...

Best case scenario: You win the lottery and it isn't a problem!

[BKinGA]

Actually, you're right. But it's that you would need to avoid the lien, and you can't do that on that type of purchase. Your only option is to Motion to Value, to make it worth the current market value, and then redeem it. Or, just return it.

You usually redeem within so many days.. by law. I think it's 60 days, and you need to do it before your case closes.

Could someone respond to my remaining questions below on this? Thanks again

Can a Motion to Value be filed on a Chapter 7? I searched the web, but the references I found were for a Chapter 13.

If it can be filed with a 7, is that filed as a part of the Chapter 7 or seperately and if seperately is that held after the meeting of creditors or does it cause the 341 meeting to be postponed?

Or if I dont file the motion to value, and return the jewelry can I use the price that I paid for them plus tax?

And finally when does any negotiation occur on the remaining balance to be redeemed? During or after the 341 meeting?

[anime-chicka]

Here's my advice: get the jewelery appraised from a 3rd party that will have no interest in the items. I got the worth of my engagement, wedding and two pendants that way. The rings were worth only about 250 together, the necklaces just shy of 400. Because I put both rings under the wedding category, I was able to keep them and put the pendants under general jewelery. Honestly, this is the most jewelery I will ever own. I hardly ever wear the necklaces because hubby and I haven't gone out in ages.

[BKinGA]

I appreciate the response regarding the jewelry appraisal, however they wont qualify for the exemption because of Zales Security Interest in them, so I still need answers to my questions.

Thanks

[coloradomrg]

Jared jewelers sent our attorney a notice that since they held a "secured money interest" in my wifes jewelry that they would either have us reaffirm the jewelry or return it. No problem for us to reaffirm, but our atty said to hold tight. He asked them to provide proof of the secured money interest before we even thought about the reaffirmation. They sent a package with a bunch of illegible copies and a reaffirmation agreement with it. Atty says ignore them, if they are serious, they will contact again before the 341 or show up. They never did and we discharged the debt It is really going to depend on how serious Zales gets about it.

[justbroke]

I was simply stating the absolute worst case scenario. If the trustee/court ordered that you return the jewelery (maybe they suspect some sort of fraud) then you would -have- to return it. If you refused or couldn't, you -would- be in contempt.

Since we don't like to talk about negative things here...

Best case scenario: You win the lottery and it isn't a problem!

Has absolutely nothing to do with "talk about negative things here".

Has to do with reality.

There are very very few criminal contempt citations in Bankruptcy Court and this practice is even questioned as to whether the Bankruptcy Court even has the power to find someone in criminal contempt.

Most of that is differed to the U.S. District Court, which by the way, hears criminal and civil cases, including appeals from the Bankruptcy Court.

I just don't like spreading misinformation and unreasonably scaring people by telling them that if they don't pay their credit cards, they'll be arrested. (Stated as an example.)