Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Listing the car as mine, when my husband has the loan? (And a few other questions)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Listing the car as mine, when my husband has the loan? (And a few other questions)

    I was talking to my attorney's paralegal today, and she said that she is listing one of our vehicles as mine on the petition, even though the loan, etc is and always has been in my husband's name. I told her that (and said so at the get-go as well) but she says it is mine since I drive it. I said we both do; it's a family vehicle, not solely mine.

    I suppose it doesn't really matter since we don't have equity in it (purchased new in 2007 for 22k, and we still owe 17k on it; I can't imagine that we would get more than that 17k selling to a private buyer!), but it kind of bugs me that it's being listed as "mine" when my name is not attached to it. Is that standard procedure?

    These are things I'm going to ask my attorney too, but thought I would get info while I'm waiting for that appt, likely on Friday:

    1- I am on the house loan and HELOC (we are current on both). My attorney told me that once I file, they will stop communication with me as far as sending statements and I think also maybe stop taking the withdrawal out for the HELOC payment.

    However, since my husband is NOT filing, wouldn't they be sending that info to him, thus he (we) still receive statements and they make the withdrawal for the HELOC? The bank accounts are in his name only (have been since April 2010).

    2 - Bank deposits to $7,500 are exempt in Oregon. I have 2 separate bank accounts, which have perhaps a combined value of $150. What I'm wondering about is my husband's accounts; one of them is his sole proprietor business account. Now, rarely is that over $7500 (especially for the past year; in fact I don't think it has been over that at all since some time in 2008). The court counts his assets, etc b/c he is the household support, right? I was thinking "Oh great, we are going to have to spend that down to nothing", but if I'm understanding correctly, as long as the combined accounts are less than $7500, that would be exempt?


    I'm getting nervous, the closer I get to filing. When she told me today that she had it almost ready, I felt like I was going to hurl. Tell me I'm not alone there LOL. It's one thing to talk about it and pay the attorney and give the info, but we've kind of been in a holding pattern since December, and now that it's close, well, I'm a little scared/freaked out. I'm not hiding any assets or income or anything, so really I have no reason to be scared, other than, you know -- it's kind of a big deal, legally speaking. Other than small claims court years ago, I've no experience with court stuff so it's a bit daunting to think of the 341 and such.

    Thank you to everyone here who has answered questions and all over my time here. I can't wait to join the discharged and closed group!
    Filed 5/31/11 341 & Report of No Distribution 7/28/11 Discharged & Closed!! 9/29/11
    "What I won't accept or buy any longer is that my credit score defines who I am. Screw that."

  • #2
    As to the car-if its not your debt and you are not on the title I don't see how you can list it as yours-it's not-its his. I'd make sure you ask the attorney. And you can't surrender it-it's not yours. Turn the tables a bit and think suppose it was paid for-you list it-trustee says give it to me or buy it back-you then say "No can do-its not mine" I think this paralegal is wrong. On the expense side if you pay for gas, etc then I would think you could list that but not ownership.
    Let us know how this plays out.

    Comment


    • #3
      What you say totally makes sense to me. And my husband, as the sole bread winner, pays for everything when it comes to the vehicle or anything else. So the payments, the maintenance, repairs, gas, insurance, all of it - he pays it. (Speaking of insurance, I am listed as a driver, so I don't know if that matters or not. Then again, we will have to list our children as drivers too when the time comes, and they won't own the vehicles as a result, so....)


      Edited to add: When I was talking to her, she said she was trying to decide how to list it, and mentioned it as possibly "personal property". WTF?




      I hired my attorney; I wish I'd known I was hiring the para, b/c I may well have gone with someone else. She frustrates me.
      Last edited by NewPage; 02-09-2011, 03:53 PM.
      Filed 5/31/11 341 & Report of No Distribution 7/28/11 Discharged & Closed!! 9/29/11
      "What I won't accept or buy any longer is that my credit score defines who I am. Screw that."

      Comment


      • #4
        Is your name on the title? If your name is not on the title or the loan, then the car is not yours for bankruptcy purposes.
        You can't take a picture of this. It's already gone. ~~Nate, Six Feet Under

        Comment


        • #5
          No, my name is not on the title OR the loan. Never has been, for either of our vehicles.

          So far, you guys are affirming my thoughts. I felt like I was banging my head against the wall when talking to her today.

          "But....it's not in my name."
          "Well, it's yours, you drive it."
          "We both drive it. It's the family vehicle. The loan is and always has been in his name."
          "But it's yours."
          "????"
          Filed 5/31/11 341 & Report of No Distribution 7/28/11 Discharged & Closed!! 9/29/11
          "What I won't accept or buy any longer is that my credit score defines who I am. Screw that."

          Comment


          • #6
            If you are both filing bankruptcy it shouldn't be an issue. But if only you are filing bankruptcy, then the car is not your asset or your liability.
            You can't take a picture of this. It's already gone. ~~Nate, Six Feet Under

            Comment


            • #7
              It's just me filing.
              Filed 5/31/11 341 & Report of No Distribution 7/28/11 Discharged & Closed!! 9/29/11
              "What I won't accept or buy any longer is that my credit score defines who I am. Screw that."

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, our situation is partially similar. We drive a car, it's financed in my mom's name and registered in her name. We have no legal right or ownership to this car at all. She makes the car payments. We send her money for the car payments. UST said we have to list it as our debt, our property, with her as the creditor. Makes no sense to me because if the car is totaled tomorrow, SHE gets the money. We could continue to send her the $, but if she chooses to stop paying for whatever reason the bank will repo it regardless of whether we sent her money. If I wanted to sell the car tomorrow, I couldn't because I have no legal right to the car. So how is this our debt and our property?
                Ch 13 filed 06/22/09. Dismissed,thankfully, 03/31/10. Ch 7 filed 06/28/10. 341 07/29/10. UST POA 08/06/10. UST mot to dismiss hearing extended to Dec...Feb...March...May...Aug. UST withdrawal of dismissal filed 05/31! DISCHARGED 07/12/2011!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I spent way more time talking to my attorney's paralegal than the attorney, and I wasn't always sure she knew exactly what she was talking about, either! But I got through it - although there were times I wish I'd insisted on speaking to the actual attorney. The paralegal was, however, very comforting and supportive. If you question what she's telling you, or your question isn't being thoroughly answered or the answer explained, I'd ask to talk to the attorney anyway. Mine would usually call the next day.

                  Anyway, I listed my husband's car (solely in his name) as an expense, as well as his gas and insurance (in both our names), as he was underemployed. I do, however, make all the payments. My attorney thought, if questioned by the trustee, she could argue that the expense was necessary to the overall function of the household. Without it, I had too much disposable income to justify a Ch 7.

                  It wasn't questioned and I only had to give my attorney a copy of his account statement showing the payment amount, just in case she needed it (she didn't).

                  I agree with the others - it's not technically your payment or your property and therefore couldn't be actually included in your filing, however, perhaps she's trying to bolster your expenses. Just check your paperwork carefully before you sign off!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That confuses me, Detroit. Someone help me be less dense :-P

                    Bolstering my expenses -- don't the household expenses figure into this?

                    How exactly does this work -- I'm filing, and I am unemployed. Have been unemployed since June 2009. I am on the mortgage and HELOC, and have credit cards in my own name. The credit card debt is what is going into the BK, about 40k. I/we are keeping the house.

                    My husband's income (and expenses??) I know are considered in the monthly household income for BK purposes. In 2010, he grossed $52k for our family of six. Legalconsumer.com, for my zip and family size, says:

                    Avg. Monthly Income (past 6 months) $7,216 per month 6-Month Total: $43,297 12 month annualized: $86,593

                    The past 6 months' gross was 29k, a monthly average of $4833 -- so obviously I am passing the means test, based on his income. We do get food benefits of $626/month -- is that income? Roughing (very rough) our expenses, we come in over the pay gross, but just under the gross + food benefits. However, I did not subtract my husband's business expenses from that, so it's all very rough.

                    Lost my train of thought there, but just giving an idea of our numbers.
                    Filed 5/31/11 341 & Report of No Distribution 7/28/11 Discharged & Closed!! 9/29/11
                    "What I won't accept or buy any longer is that my credit score defines who I am. Screw that."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I got the petition and schedules from the paralegal today (finally!). She lists the van as such, on the "Statement of Financial Affairs":

                      List all property owned by another person that the debtor holds or controls.
                      NAME AND
                      ADDRESS OF OWNER
                      DESCRIPTION AND
                      VALUE OF PROPERTY
                      LOCATION OF PROPERTY
                      Mr. NewPage
                      Address
                      2007 Honda Odyssey
                      $10,000.00 loan still owed in the
                      amount of $17,002.00
                      In Debtor's Possession

                      Why would she do that? Is it b/c of the 2 vehicles we have, I "have to" show a vehicle? She didn't put my husband's truck on there at all.
                      Filed 5/31/11 341 & Report of No Distribution 7/28/11 Discharged & Closed!! 9/29/11
                      "What I won't accept or buy any longer is that my credit score defines who I am. Screw that."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This is the answer I got from my attorney today:

                        I think L___ told me the Honda is the car you drive? Title is merely an indication of ownership. I thought it was wise to at lease bring the vehicle to the attention of the trustee to avoid any appearance we hiding assets. The fact there is no equity in the vehicle makes it all moot anyway.
                        Filed 5/31/11 341 & Report of No Distribution 7/28/11 Discharged & Closed!! 9/29/11
                        "What I won't accept or buy any longer is that my credit score defines who I am. Screw that."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi NewPage,

                          I think L___ told me the Honda is the car you drive? Title is merely an indication of ownership. I thought it was wise to at lease bring the vehicle to the attention of the trustee to avoid any appearance we hiding assets. The fact there is no equity in the vehicle makes it all moot anyway.

                          Might have to give your attorney some love here....looks like they had your back after all!

                          Tom in Colo
                          Ch7 filed 5/12/2010.....341 meeting 6/30/2010....report of no distribution 8/15/2010.....discharged 10/01/2010.....closed 11/09/2010

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes, I agree. I wish his para had told me that to begin with! It was kind of what I was thinking, but I just needed to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak! ;-)
                            Filed 5/31/11 341 & Report of No Distribution 7/28/11 Discharged & Closed!! 9/29/11
                            "What I won't accept or buy any longer is that my credit score defines who I am. Screw that."

                            Comment

                            Unconfigured Ad Widget

                            Collapse
                            Working...
                            X