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Need my transcript released

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  • Need my transcript released

    Hi, I need some help here, own some college tuition (NOT a loan). (let's not argue if this is dischargeble or not). anyway. I just received my discharge letter a few days ago. and that my attorney did NOT include the university on the matrix when he filed it. consider it is a "No asset" chapter 7 case, there is no need to re-open the case, the tuition should be discharged. my question is, how do I notify the university beside sending a copy of the discharge letter, should I attach another letter of some sort request them to release the "hold" on my transcript? And how would they know it is a "no asset" chapter 7, because the discharge letter did not say anything about asset or no asset. btw, my attorney is nowhere to be found as soon as after the 314 meeting. So i'm thinking may be I re deal with this myself. thanks very much.

  • #2
    It does not matter that you do not want to discuss "dischargeability", because your entire question is premised on this being non-dischargeable. Any amounts owed for "educational purposes" are non-dischargeable. Whether it was a loan or not is irrelevant (since the code clearly defines any "obligation" to pay).

    Almost all colleges, universities and other higher education facilities take that to heart. The only thing you can do is just as you write. Attach a cover letter to your discharge and ask the school to release your transcript. The determination of the case being an "asset" case or not has absolutely no affect on this matter. The only thing is whether the debt was discharged (period).

    Good luck. Some debtors were able to get their transcripts after discharge, but some have not. It's not improbable. The school may be more sympathetic after reviewing your letter.

    (You may have been better off demanding the transcript while your case was pending and the automatic stay was in effect. Otherwise, you could always re-open your case and file a Complaint to Determine Dischargeability and attempt to prove that this "tuition", your word, is not an "educational benefit" and not subject to the exception in 11 USC 523.)
    Last edited by justbroke; 02-22-2013, 02:41 PM.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by justbroke View Post
      It does not matter what you do not want to discuss "dischargeability", because your entire question is premised on this being non-dischargeable. Any amounts owed for "educational purposes" are non-dischargeable. Whether it was a loan or not is irrelevant (since the code clearly defines any "obligation" to pay).

      Almost all colleges, universities and other higher education facilities take that to heart. The only thing you can do is just as you write. Attach a cover letter to your discharge and ask the school to release your transcript. The determination of the case being an "asset" case or not has absolutely no affect on this matter. The only thing is whether the debt was discharged (period).

      Good luck. Some debtors were able to get their transcripts after discharge, but some have not. It's not improbable. The school may be more sympathetic after reviewing your letter.

      (You may have been better off demanding the transcript while your case was pending and the automatic stay was in effect.)
      My 2 hours google says that, educational loan is non-dischargeable, but a unpaid tuition is dischargeable. Can you show me an article back up your statement? thanks very much.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by evoamac View Post
        My 2 hours google says that, educational loan is non-dischargeable, but a unpaid tuition is dischargeable. Can you show me an article back up your statement? thanks very much.
        It's the law (period). The law doesn't even mention "unpaid tuition". It mentions "obligations" to pay and loans.

        The only question is whether it was in fact non-dischargeable. If the school believes that you signed some sort of promissory note or contract for this "billed" but "unpaid" tuition, they may be in for a fight. That fight would mean that you would need to pursue in the bankrupcy court as either a discharge violation, or to open a complaint to determine dischargeability to see if this was actually dischargeable and discharged.

        Your issue will be whether you have an "oglibation" to repay the tuition. If you did not sign a master promissory note, a promissory note, or some other document indicating that you'd pay this "tuition", it is, in fact, dischargeable.

        As suggested, just start with the letter and see how they respond. With any luck, they will just release the transcript. However, if you entered into an obligation to pay and they want to enforce that, they may hold their ground.

        So, just write the letter and claim that it was discharged because it does not meet the exception in 11 USC 523. Then see what they respond with. If they claim it is an obligation to repay and that it is within the exception to discharge, then you will need to go to the bankruptcy court. Some have had luck with just the letter and the claim of the violation of the discharge, and others were met with a rebuttal that the debt was NOT discharged.

        The only way to find the position of your school, is to write them and demand that the transcripts be released because the debt was discharged.

        See, no arguing of whether it was discharged or not! Let the school tell your their position. Then you/we can argue about whether the debt was discharged. I was just letting you know the position of how most schools treat this, and how the court may see it if you need to re-open your case.

        11 USC 523(a)(8)

        (8) unless excepting such debt from discharge under this paragraph would impose an undue hardship on the debtor and the debtor’s dependents, for—
        (A)
        (i) an educational benefit overpayment or loan made, insured, or guaranteed by a governmental unit, or made under any program funded in whole or in part by a governmental unit or nonprofit institution; or
        (ii) an obligation to repay funds received as an educational benefit, scholarship, or stipend; or
        (B) any other educational loan that is a qualified education loan, as defined in section 221(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, incurred by a debtor who is an individual;
        (Any caselaw prior to October 1, 2005 and not based on the BAPCPA, is probably moot and dead on arrival. Congress changed the law in 2005 (BAPCPA) to tighten the definition of an "educational" benefit.)
        Last edited by justbroke; 02-22-2013, 03:05 PM.
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

        Comment


        • #5
          Where are you or this school? Some circuits are more stringent than others.
          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by justbroke View Post
            It's the law (period). The law doesn't even mention "unpaid tuition". It mentions "obligations" to pay and loans.

            The only question is whether it was in fact non-dischargeable. If the school believes that you signed some sort of promissory note or contract for this "billed" but "unpaid" tuition, they may be in for a fight. That fight would mean that you would need to pursue in the bankrupcy court as either a discharge violation, or to open a complaint to determine dischargeability to see if this was actually dischargeable and discharged.

            Your issue will be whether you have an "oglibation" to repay the tuition. If you did not sign a master promissory note, a promissory note, or some other document indicating that you'd pay this "tuition", it is, in fact, dischargeable.

            As suggested, just start with the letter and see how they respond. With any luck, they will just release the transcript. However, if you entered into an obligation to pay and they want to enforce that, they may hold their ground.

            So, just write the letter and claim that it was discharged because it does not meet the exception in 11 USC 523. Then see what they respond with. If they claim it is an obligation to repay and that it is within the exception to discharge, then you will need to go to the bankruptcy court. Some have had luck with just the letter and the claim of the violation of the discharge, and others were met with a rebuttal that the debt was NOT discharged.

            The only way to find the position of your school, is to write them and demand that the transcripts be released because the debt was discharged.

            See, no arguing of whether it was discharged or not! Let the school tell your their position. Then you/we can argue about whether the debt was discharged. I was just letting you know the position of how most schools treat this, and how the court may see it if you need to re-open your case.



            (Any caselaw prior to October 1, 2005 and not based on the BAPCPA, is probably moot and dead on arrival. Congress changed the law in 2005 (BAPCPA) to tighten the definition of an "educational" benefit.)
            ok, now this is pretty consistent with what I had been reading over the internet, I don't think I ever signed anything about the tuition. I think I'm just going to send an email to the financial adviser at the school, attache a copy of the discharge letter, that way it feel more casual (don't want to make them feel like I'm already in a fight with them). after all, they are holding the stuff I want. Hey, thanks a lot for your response.

            Comment


            • #7
              If the counselor responds negatively, just follow up with a written letter addressed to the Dean or President of the School. If you never signed a promissory note, then the debt would have been discharged. Hopefully they are agreeable and you don't need to fight.
              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
              Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                If the counselor responds negatively, just follow up with a written letter addressed to the Dean or President of the School. If you never signed a promissory note, then the debt would have been discharged. Hopefully they are agreeable and you don't need to fight.
                what document do I send (attach) with my email besides the discharge letter, because the attorney didn't include them in the matrix, how do I prove to them it is a "no asset" chapter 7? cuz the discharge letter didn't say anything about asset or no asset. thanks.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You don't need to prove anything! They need to prove that it was discharged. The fact that you have a discharge letter requires them to "think" about their next step! (Even so that the instructions, usually attached to the discharge order, instruct would-be creditors to check with an attorney before attempting to collect any debt.)
                  Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                  Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                  Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                  I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                    You don't need to prove anything! They need to prove that it was discharged. The fact that you have a discharge letter requires them to "think" about their next step! (Even so that the instructions, usually attached to the discharge order, instruct would-be creditors to check with an attorney before attempting to collect any debt.)
                    looks like they are ignoring my email at the moment, been almost a week, they didn't replay, should I send some in writing? certified mail?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by evoamac View Post
                      looks like they are ignoring my email at the moment, been almost a week, they didn't replay, should I send some in writing? certified mail?
                      I recommend that EVERYTHING is in writing and with certified mail return receipt. I personally, in these cases, also set a deadline for them to respond and take corrective action. I also add in that letter what will happen the day after the deadline expires. This has traditionally been, for me, filing a Motion with the Bankruptcy court, to re-open the case, to find the creditor in violation of the permanent discharge injunction, and for Sanctions.

                      You need to be prepared to actually go through with what you indicate will happen if they fail to respond. Otherwise, they are just idle "threats".
                      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Usually when you enroll in an institution they have you sign off on a financial responsibility agreement, it usually has a clause like this contained within it...

                        "Under such circumstances, you are responsible for all reasonable costs incurred by the College in the collection of the past due debt. These costs may include collection and/or attorney fees. All outstanding debts are considered to be educational loans offered for the sole purpose of financing an education and may not be dischargeable in bankruptcy proceedings."

                        Whether you signed it or not you have to explain to a judge how you thought you were under no obligation to pay them back when you enrolled for that semesters classes.

                        Comment

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