Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Please Help: Creditor Request for a Deposition

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Please Help: Creditor Request for a Deposition

    Unforunately, the attorney I hired for my bankruptcy has been awful... Makes me want to cry how I spent all this money and she's so incredibly rude to me. But this is the situation I'm faced with now and was hoping the amazingly informed people on this site could help me since she hasn't given me much info

    My case was filed on 2/26/14 and the last date to challenge is 6/6/14. My attorney contacted me today and told me a creditor has requested a deposition for May 30. This is a creditor that I anticipated contesting the discharge - I took out a loan from them that was supposed to be secured by my car, however I never sent them the car title. I ended up getting another loan with the car as collateral later and that lender has the title. I also have another $25,000 in unsecured loans with this same lender. I took out all of these loans within a short period of time...

    Do you know what this deposition is going to entail? Am I going to get any information from them before so that I can be more prepared? From what I've read online, I think this might be a 2004 examination... but I'm not positive.

    My attorney offered to represent me at this meeting for $1,000 and said it would be additional fees if they end up filing an advesary preceeding. I don't think I can work with her, though. Will I need an attorney for this? Or can I do it alone? Should I get someone else to come with me?

    Any info would be really, really appreciated

  • #2
    Yes, your attorney must be the twin sister of our own inept and rude attorney.

    With that little cuss out of my system, I will say that what you are describing does indeed sound like a 2004 exam. You will go into a room with your Trustee's attorney, and answer questions regarding that particular debt. Do NOT volunteer any information. Answer the questions as best you can with 'yes' and 'no' answers. Say nothing else.

    Now, do you have a PACER account? If so, go to it and see what the latest documentation is. Do not print it: that will cost you. Instead, copy and save it to your hard drive in your BK folder.

    And, keep every sheet of paper that may come to you from the courthouse. Keep them in your file, for situations just like this.

    My very best to you.~~~
    "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

    "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you so much for you response! So frustrating when you pay someone almost $3000 and they treat you like this... Sorry you had to go through it too :-/

      When you say look at the latest documentation, do you mean the "view document" link? Or another link? Because that one needs a number and I don't have any...

      Thank you for the advice in regards to the 2004 exam... I'm pretty sure that's what this is. Do you know, in order to have one of these meetings, does the attorney have to file a notice with the bankruptcy court? Would this show in pacer? I wasn't able to find anything there... And side note, do I only have to pay on pacer if I print? No just view online? I'm having a hard time figuring out where the useful information is on pacer. I see that the trustee has filed a notice of no distribution, which I gather is good.

      Couple more questions if you don't mind...

      * Does having a 2004 meeting mean they'll likely file a adversary preceding?
      * Should I hire a different attorney to come with me to the 2004 exam? Or is going alone after sufficiently the process researching ok?
      * Is there a reason they want to schedule the exam only one week before the deadline to object to the discharge (5 weeks from now)?
      * Are there any questions I should ask the creditor's attorney before the meeting? Or at the meeting?
      * Do you know how long the 2004 exam usually lasts?

      Thanks again! REALLY appreciate it, you probably don't understand how much


      Originally posted by AngelinaCat View Post
      Yes, your attorney must be the twin sister of our own inept and rude attorney.

      With that little cuss out of my system, I will say that what you are describing does indeed sound like a 2004 exam. You will go into a room with your Trustee's attorney, and answer questions regarding that particular debt. Do NOT volunteer any information. Answer the questions as best you can with 'yes' and 'no' answers. Say nothing else.

      Now, do you have a PACER account? If so, go to it and see what the latest documentation is. Do not print it: that will cost you. Instead, copy and save it to your hard drive in your BK folder.

      And, keep every sheet of paper that may come to you from the courthouse. Keep them in your file, for situations just like this.

      My very best to you.~~~

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Trying2Smile View Post
        When you say look at the latest documentation, do you mean the "view document" link? Or another link? Because that one needs a number and I don't have any...

        Thank you for the advice in regards to the 2004 exam... I'm pretty sure that's what this is. Do you know, in order to have one of these meetings, does the attorney have to file a notice with the bankruptcy court? Would this show in pacer? I wasn't able to find anything there...
        Go to the Docket Report. It will show any documents that have been filed, including a link to view the document. If this is a 2004 exam, the creditor would have had to file a motion for the exam and the motion would appear on the docket report.

        If the creditor has already filed a complaint for nondischargeability (which would also be on the docket report), then this is not be a 2004 exam, it would be a discovery for the AP. I am basing this on the following Nolo article: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...ankruptcy.html

        Originally posted by Trying2Smile View Post
        And side note, do I only have to pay on pacer if I print? No just view online? I'm having a hard time figuring out where the useful information is on pacer.
        The charge to view a document is the same as the charge to print one. A window will pop up telling you how much you will be charged before you view the document. When you view the document, you should print or save it to your hard drive so that you won't have to pay if you want to view it again. If you do not incur $10 in charges in one quarter, you will not be charged.

        Read the following sticky for more help with PACER: http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...Guide-amp-Tips Keep in mind that some of the charges may have increased since the thread was originally started.

        Originally posted by Trying2Smile View Post
        I see that the trustee has filed a notice of no distribution, which I gather is good.
        Yes. This means there are no assets to liquidate for the benefit of creditors.

        Originally posted by Trying2Smile View Post
        Couple more questions if you don't mind...

        * Does having a 2004 meeting mean they'll likely file a adversary preceding?
        It means they are gathering information to determine whether they should file an AP.

        Originally posted by Trying2Smile View Post
        * Should I hire a different attorney to come with me to the 2004 exam? Or is going alone after sufficiently the process researching ok?
        It sounds like there is a lot of debt on the line here. If I were you, I'd want to be represented by an attorney (assuming you want to fight any objection to dischargeability of this creditor's debt).

        Originally posted by Trying2Smile View Post
        * Is there a reason they want to schedule the exam only one week before the deadline to object to the discharge (5 weeks from now)?
        Everything takes time to file and process. It is very common in any legal proceeding to go right up against a deadline. Don't be surprised if they file a request for an extension of time to file an objection.

        Originally posted by Trying2Smile View Post
        * Are there any questions I should ask the creditor's attorney before the meeting? Or at the meeting?
        In addition to AC's excellent advice to answer only what is asked, I would have as little discussion with the creditor's attorney as possible. They are gathering information for a case against you and you don't want to inadvertently give them any ammo. Your adversary's attorney is not the one you want answering your questions.
        LadyInTheRed is in the black!
        Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
        $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you for the advice! I will definitely limit my contact with the other attorney. Just call her to schedule the 2004 exam.

          I've checked pacer and it doesn't seem like she's filed a petition for the 2004. Is this abnormal? The way I knew she wanted one was her calling my attorney and my attorney reaching out to me. Should I just schedule the meeting with her despite not getting anything from the courts?

          I was hoping not to have to pay an attorney any more, but seems as though you suggest it. I feel like from all the research I did for filing I was more informed than my attorney and had to make many, many modifications to the schedules we filed. I definitely wouldn't retain her for this, but what would be the role of an attorney in the 2004 exam since I am the one being questioned and it doesn't seem like the attorney would be able to make many, or any, objections to questions posed to me. Just trying to weigh out if the extra expense at a time when things are tight is worth it

          Thank you again.... Soooo much!


          Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
          Go to the Docket Report. It will show any documents that have been filed, including a link to view the document. If this is a 2004 exam, the creditor would have had to file a motion for the exam and the motion would appear on the docket report.

          If the creditor has already filed a complaint for nondischargeability (which would also be on the docket report), then this is not be a 2004 exam, it would be a discovery for the AP. I am basing this on the following Nolo article: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...ankruptcy.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Trying2Smile View Post
            I've checked pacer and it doesn't seem like she's filed a petition for the 2004.
            But, have they filed a complaint for non-dischargeability?

            Originally posted by Trying2Smile View Post
            Is this abnormal? The way I knew she wanted one was her calling my attorney and my attorney reaching out to me. Should I just schedule the meeting with her despite not getting anything from the courts?
            Keep in mind that I have no experience with 2004 exams. Everything I've told you is based on the Nolo site and the language of Rule 2004: http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frbp/rule_2004. It appears to me that you are not required to go to a Rule 2004 Exam unless you are ordered by a court to do so. Would it be a good idea to submit to an exam and be cooperative or would it be better to make the attorney go through proper procedures? This is a question that should be answered by an attorney familiar with the issues connected with this creditor.

            What exactly did your attorney tell you? Perhaps the creditor's attorney is about to file a motion for a 2004 and wants to coordinate with you to set a convenient date.

            Originally posted by Trying2Smile View Post
            I was hoping not to have to pay an attorney any more, but seems as though you suggest it. I feel like from all the research I did for filing I was more informed than my attorney and had to make many, many modifications to the schedules we filed. I definitely wouldn't retain her for this, but what would be the role of an attorney in the 2004 exam since I am the one being questioned and it doesn't seem like the attorney would be able to make many, or any, objections to questions posed to me. Just trying to weigh out if the extra expense at a time when things are tight is worth it
            An attorney would know what objections can be raised to questions. For example, if they ask you a question that would require you to admit to committing fraud, can you refuse to answer because the answer may incriminate you? An attorney can help prepare you for the questions that will be asked. It sounds like there is a lot of debt involved here. I don't know whether the $25,000 in unsecured debt is vulnerable to being declared non-dischargeable and you don't mention the amount of the car loan. But, if you have a chance of defeating an objection to discharge, I think it is worth paying an attorney to represent you.
            LadyInTheRed is in the black!
            Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
            $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

            Comment


            • #7
              About your attorney, part of your title to a previous thread was "incompetent attorney?" As we got into the details, I don't know that anything you thought was incorrect actually was. Some things were more a matter of strategy. In this thread you just say that she is rude. Do you still think she is incompetent? If not, you might want to try to work with her if she has experience representing clients in APs. I have worked with many rude attorneys that are also excellent advocates for their clients. If you can put on a thick skin, results can be very good. You could also try talking to her about the way she treats you.

              I'm not saying it is okay for an attorney to be rude to her client. But, if she is competent and experienced with APs it will probably be more cost-efficient to have her represent you in a 2004 exam or AP than somebody who would have to spend time familiarizing themselves with your case. Before you decide, consult with a couple other attorneys.
              LadyInTheRed is in the black!
              Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
              $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

              Comment


              • #8
                Incompetent is in reference to incorrect filling out of my schedules. Somethings she was right about that I did not know, but notable things she was blatantly wrong on that I discussed in my last post were 1) incorrect deduction of flexible spending 2) not wanting me to have a negative disposable income from schedules I & J 3) leaving child support and car payments off my statement of financial affairs... And just other general inconsistencies in the paperwork that I corrected. One conversation she even asked me to explain something to her about the paperwork as she didn't know the intricacies of that section. It just seems like she doesn't care and wants to spend as little time as possible on my case, hence her rudeness.

                She is young, not much experience. I actually chose her because of her fiestyness - thought it would be handy in battling creditors. And many times those not much out of school still have good knowledge. But I made a mistake with her

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nothing was filed by the creditors attorney. Not a dispute of discharge or anything. But you're probably right about trying to schedule a mutually convenient time before filing. The creditor's attorney has a lot of experience so I'm guessing it's most likely she is going to go by the books.

                  I'm gonna to do as you suggested. Talk to a few other attorneys. From what I can gather you aren't able to object to much at all during a 2004 exam, but an attorney could help with prep/negotiations. Thanks again for taking the time to write back

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It sounds like her rudeness may be a symptom of feeling defensive about her errors. Even if you decide not to have an attorney accompany you at a 2004 exam, consulting with attorneys first could be helpful to prepare you and also to get somebody lined up in case an AP is filed.
                    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Very good points!


                      Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
                      It sounds like her rudeness may be a symptom of feeling defensive about her errors. Even if you decide not to have an attorney accompany you at a 2004 exam, consulting with attorneys first could be helpful to prepare you and also to get somebody lined up in case an AP is filed.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just in case someone comes across this later looking for info on 2004 exams, it seems as though my creditor's attorney was required to attempt to contact me - even if unsuccessful - before filing the motion for the 2004 examination.

                        Comment

                        Unconfigured Ad Widget

                        Collapse
                        Working...
                        X