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Health Insurance Discussion

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  • Article today on MSN says 67%. That is pretty high.. and guess who pays for it when we BK? We all do, it is passed around in higher costs for everyone in the future. But, we all are filing because we have no choice. How many more will there be over the next year and how much high will healthcare costs go? I think it was interesting to find out that we pay twice as much for and MRI machine than ANY other country. When they tried to find out why basically they found out there was no bargaining being done, they just excepted the cost and paid it knowing that we the American people would pay more for each visit to pay for the extra cost. Most places did not even know they were over paying. We need controls!

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    • Article today on MSN says 67%. That is pretty high.. and guess who pays for it when we BK? We all do, it is passed around in higher costs for everyone in the future. But, we all are filing because we have no choice. How many more will there be over the next year and how much high will healthcare costs go? I think it was interesting to find out that we pay twice as much for and MRI machine than ANY other country. When they tried to find out why basically they found out there was no bargaining being done, they just excepted the cost and paid it knowing that we the American people would pay more for each visit to pay for the extra cost. Most places did not even know they were over paying. We need controls! Malpractice suits are only 3% of the costs, and in Texas one area down their did away with that with tort reform. Their healthcare costs went up at a faster pace... explain that one.. geesh...

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      • I think we can pay for it. Right now our costs are so high because we are paying for those who do not have insurance and they are using the ER's. That costs us more than twice as much, and don't think that cost is not passed on in overall costs at a hosptial. Plus little things, like we pay 10 times more for some medications than any other nation, why? And we pay twice as much for MRI machines than any other nation, again why? In Europe people bargin, in the US our business practice is to simply pay and pass on the cost. We may not want to look exactly like Canada, or Germany, or England, but for gosh sakes we can not keep looking like we do. More and more people are losing their insurance that will cost those with health insurance more and more all the time as the costs will be passed on in rising costs in healthcare. I guess how I see it is years ago our great nation and its people fought against unfair practices in the wild west. We stopped large ranchers from cutting off water supplies to the smaller ranchers downstream or towns because people need water to survive. We have been a nation about being fair as much as about being hard working and creative. There is no difference between denying a person water so they can ranch and survive, and denying a person a decent income so they can provide for their familes if they are willing to work. Or denying them from healthcare. You can say, they have healthcare but they don't. Just because they can use the ER does not mean they can afford their medications, or checkups. We force people into using the most expensive care in our nation the ER, and then we are upset up rising costs? We need to change our way of thinking, of doing business, and of caring for each other. Not everyone that is not working is a dead beat that is not willing to work, just as not everyone that filled a BK is a deadbeat. Are there some deadbeats, sure there are. I have never personally met anyone who would not work though and that did not want to work if they could afford to or were able to. I think there is as much exaggeration about lazy people as there is about BK deadbeats.

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        • I think we can pay for it. Right now our costs are so high because we are paying for those who do not have insurance and they are using the ER's. That costs us more than twice as much, and don't think that cost is not passed on in overall costs at a hosptial. Plus little things, like we pay 10 times more for some medications than any other nation, why? And we pay twice as much for MRI machines than any other nation, again why? In Europe people bargin, in the US our business practice is to simply pay and pass on the cost. We may not want to look exactly like Canada, or Germany, or England, but for gosh sakes we can not keep looking like we do. More and more people are losing their insurance that will cost those with health insurance more and more all the time as the costs will be passed on in rising costs in healthcare. I guess how I see it is years ago our great nation and its people fought against unfair practices in the wild west. We stopped large ranchers from cutting off water supplies to the smaller ranchers downstream or towns because people need water to survive. We have been a nation about being fair as much as about being hard working and creative. There is no difference between denying a person water so they can ranch and survive, and denying a person a decent income so they can provide for their familes if they are willing to work. Or denying them from healthcare. You can say, they have healthcare but they don't. Just because they can use the ER does not mean they can afford their medications, or checkups. We force people into using the most expensive care in our nation the ER, and then we are upset up rising costs? We need to change our way of thinking, of doing business, and of caring for each other. Not everyone that is not working is a dead beat that is not willing to work, just as not everyone that filled a BK is a deadbeat. Are there some deadbeats, sure there are. I have never personally met anyone who would not work though and that did not want to work if they could afford to or were able to. I think there is as much exaggeration about lazy people as there is about BK deadbeats. And yes, we need to stop the AMA from keeping doctors out they are driving up the incomes and driving up the cost of medical school too. And Big Pharmees are spending on the schools too so the doctors training is all about medications and treatments. I would like to see fair and balanced training in the class rooms about all kinds of care and treatments that WORK of course instead of being so influenced to push pills.

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          • Whatever comes out of Congress, mark my words you will not be paying anything cheaper for Health Care. It is illogical to assume you can cover more people and make all people regardless of infirmity pay the same rates and assume that rates will go down.

            I'm glad they stripped the lowered age of Medicare from the bill as it is already headed for bankruptcy and could have doubled enrollment potentially. It's just something that we can't afford.

            Don't believe the numbers they are touting either. Government accounting is like Enron, they never include the full picture and they use smoke and mirrors. They always use the rosiest income generation figures (that's highest) and the rosiest cost projections (that's lowest). The truth is because of this they always overestimate revenue and underestimate cost and not insignificantly either. Medicare costs well in excess of ten fold its original projections.

            The most significant change I believe needed is not in the bills, that's tort reform.
            May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
            July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
            September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

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            • I gotta jump in one fast comment. I'm batting cancer, and just two of the meds I HAVE to have to survive are... $736.00 a month, (30 tiny pills) and I will need these for life, the other is $2,800 for a 3 month injection (shot), I need every three months.. for life.

              I looked up the pharmaceutical company that makes these drugs.. last year they had a net of 700 billion dollars... that's SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION dollars in profit. I look at those figures and it worries me... With that kind of profit fighting cancer for one.. just one pharmaceutical company ... will there ever be a cure.
              In a perfect world every dog has a home, and every home has a dog.

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              • Originally posted by PacificBlue View Post
                I gotta jump in one fast comment. I'm batting cancer, and just two of the meds I HAVE to have to survive are... $736.00 a month, (30 tiny pills) and I will need these for life, the other is $2,800 for a 3 month injection (shot), I need every three months.. for life.

                I looked up the pharmaceutical company that makes these drugs.. last year they had a net of 700 billion dollars... that's SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION dollars in profit. I look at those figures and it worries me... With that kind of profit fighting cancer for one.. just one pharmaceutical company ... will there ever be a cure.
                The profit for this discovery would dwarf the $700B you see now.

                I haven't studied the pharmaceutical companies but just listing the net profit without listing gross revenue and the sources of that revenue really means nothing. The concept of profit is not bad in spite of what the liberal media and socialists like Obama might lead you to believe.

                It's like that thread being argued about the debtor who is receiving a lump sum distribution of $50K. To him it means practically nothing in the scope of his bankruptcy but others are bad mouthing him claiming he's abusing the system. It's all relative.
                Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JRScott View Post
                  Whatever comes out of Congress, mark my words you will not be paying anything cheaper for Health Care. It is illogical to assume you can cover more people and make all people regardless of infirmity pay the same rates and assume that rates will go down.

                  I'm glad they stripped the lowered age of Medicare from the bill as it is already headed for bankruptcy and could have doubled enrollment potentially. It's just something that we can't afford.

                  Don't believe the numbers they are touting either. Government accounting is like Enron, they never include the full picture and they use smoke and mirrors. They always use the rosiest income generation figures (that's highest) and the rosiest cost projections (that's lowest). The truth is because of this they always overestimate revenue and underestimate cost and not insignificantly either. Medicare costs well in excess of ten fold its original projections.

                  The most significant change I believe needed is not in the bills, that's tort reform.
                  Bingo! Strangely, it's not even being discussed as part of this massive overhaul. I wonder why.
                  Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by PacificBlue View Post
                    I looked up the pharmaceutical company that makes these drugs.. last year they had a net of 700 billion dollars... that's SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION dollars in profit. I look at those figures and it worries me... With that kind of profit fighting cancer for one.. just one pharmaceutical company ... will there ever be a cure.
                    Pharma is a very special business. It's one of the only ones where government has and can step in and basically invalidated their patent (and manufacturing process) with others.

                    So, Pharma can spend (and does) over a billion dollars dollars just developing and to get approval for one drug! Then, their patent is only protected for so long (20 years or so), before it becomes "generic". The government (FDA) can also step in and, based on needs of the People at large, accelerate the protection period and now their drug is generic (Remember the Cipro issue... I do, because the place that made it was in Lansing Michigan by the airport and after 9/11/2001, they had super security around that plan!)

                    After approval, setting up a fabrication plant for the particular drug will cost a billion or more, in addition to the R&D and approval costs!

                    So... they are special, and they do need to make all their money quickly. Remember, most of these Pharmaceuticals are gigantic. They are a conglomeration built upon many many acquisitions and merges. Sanofi-Aventis alone is like Aventis, Pasteur Merieux Connaught , Sanofi, and others.

                    FYI, I think your $700B annual for one company is inaccurate. They'd be the worlds biggest corporation.
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

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                    • There is grant money available to research drugs too and they use that, and that is TAXPAYER dollars for free.

                      Comment


                      • Yes, the 700 is probably before expenses? Not sure but the top ones do pretty well, so maybe all combined is pretty good even after expenses?

                        The combined profits for the ten drug companies in the Fortune 500 ($35.9 billion) were more than the profits for all the other 490 businesses put together ($33.7 billion) [in 2002]. Over the past two decades the pharmaceutical industry has moved very far from its original high purpose of discovering and producing useful new drugs. Now primarily a marketing machine to sell drugs of dubious benefit, this industry uses its wealth and power to co-opt every institution that might stand in its way, including the US Congress, the FDA, academic medical centers, and the medical profession itself."

                        Comment


                        • If you have a problem, I'm sure the drug companies will find a profitable (for them) drug to cure it.

                          (Exceptions for BL5 level viruses/disease.)
                          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by OhioFiler View Post
                            The profit for this discovery[cure for cancer] would dwarf the $700B you see now.
                            I would not be so sure about that. A cure would be a one shot deal. You take the drug or drug regiment for a period of time and you are cured. You don't need any additional drug.

                            Whereas now, people take the treatment month after month, year after year. Not to mention all the other tests and scans to check progress.

                            It's like they could make pens that virtually never run out of ink. But why? After everyone buys one, the market would shrivel up to just replacing lost pens.
                            March 2009 - Filed Ch 13 April 2009 - 341 Meeting
                            Sept 2009 - Confirmed April 2014 Plan completed May 2014 - Discharged!!

                            Comment


                            • For me living with cancer, I always hope there will be a cure, (and soon) but the reality side of me knows there too much money being made "treating it" then for there to be a cure.

                              Having cancer, and being close to retirement (about 3 years) we are depending on CORBA for a "reasonable" monthly cost. It's a helpless feeling watching this health care plan in congress right now, knowing my future treatments could depend on it.

                              Maybe.. just maybe if the profit of "treating" cancer was removed, a cure would show up right away.
                              In a perfect world every dog has a home, and every home has a dog.

                              Comment


                              • Hadn't noticed this thread before now. I'd been insured through my jobs post-college, paying my $50-$100 per check, thinking it was just something I HAD to have. Well, the first time I got pregnant, I checked into medicaid. I qualified for it, even though my husband and I were both working full time. If I'd gone through the entire pregnancy, labor and delivery with just the insurance through my job, I'd have come out of pocket about $5k. If I applied for medicaid, I'd have zero OOP. Not a hard decision to make huh? Medicaid was used as secondary. Medicaid actually reimbursed ME for the premiums I paid for my company insurance...the company insurance paid its portion, and then Medicaid covered the remainder. I did pay about $600 to my dr, because he didn't accept Medicaid at the time.

                                I have a thyroid condition that must be monitored, and I have regular appts that include tests. In all the years I was working and had insurance through my job, I'd end up paying $300-$400 for these tests AFTER my insurance paid its part. During the pregnancy however, Medicaid covered and I had zero OOP. After the pregnancy was over, I was unemployed and uninsured. My first check up with the thyroid specialist, and I was SHOCKED to get a bill for $30. This was my OOP after "non-insured discount." So I thought to myself, "WTH have I been doing all these years? Paying all this money OOP when I had insurance....should have dropped the insurance long ago and been paying $30 instead of $300+!"

                                Second pregnancy....I was still unemployed and had no insurance, so automatically qualified for Medicaid. No OOP's again and this time my dr does accept Medicaid, so no fees to pay him either.

                                No, I don't think of myself as a "welfare mom" or whatever....I have worked and paid my taxes, so has my husband, and if I can get some of that back I see nothing wrong it. I have only been state-insured during pregnancy...this will be my last child, so I will go back to being uninsured in a few months. Back to getting the "non-insured discount" and when I do get employment, I'm sure I will hesitate to sign up for insurance where they will deduct hundreds of dollars from my paycheck so that I can owe hundreds of dollars after each dr. visit.....when I know I can take home my paycheck instead and just pay $30 to the dr....doesn't make much sense but that's how it's worked in my situation so far. God forbid something TERRIBLE would happen and I was uninsured....but god forbid I "waste" that money on insurance/healthcare instead of spending it on food for my kids.

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