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  • very upset

    We got a notice in the mail today from our doctors office (one NOT listed in our BK)...they have dropped us! He's been our doctor for years! The letter stated "since you refuse to pay your bills, we refuse to offer you service".

    OMG!!! I'm not refusing to pay my bills!!! I CAN'T PAY THEM!!!! That is WHY. I. FILED. BANKRUPTCY!!!

    I didn't expect this. I suppose I'll be getting other notices from my other doctors offices, my kids pediatrician...this is just awful!

    Any opinion expressed is based on personal experience and/or research. i.e.

  • #2
    Originally posted by IamIrene View Post
    We got a notice in the mail today from our doctors office (one NOT listed in our BK)...they have dropped us! He's been our doctor for years! The letter stated "since you refuse to pay your bills, we refuse to offer you service".

    OMG!!! I'm not refusing to pay my bills!!! I CAN'T PAY THEM!!!! That is WHY. I. FILED. BANKRUPTCY!!!

    I didn't expect this. I suppose I'll be getting other notices from my other doctors offices, my kids pediatrician...this is just awful!

    If you received a letter as you quoted, you needed to dump him along time ago. Remember Hippocratic Oath and all that? Now a question: Do you owe him and is it not paid? If so, for some reason even not listed, they found out you are bk. BTW you should have listed him regardless.

    This could be an office policy and I would attempt to go and see the doctor personally. He may not even know. Our doc office started giving us problems over paying deductibles and although we always paid eventually, we were being dunned. Next visit I asked our doc and he knew nothing of it and told his office to allow us to pay as we can and they stopped this. After we picked up our lives, we have an HSA that they have on file and it makes it so much easier. Please attempt this and also more info. Answer my questions about payments made. Thanks. 'Hub
    If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

    Comment


    • #3
      IamIrene, if you want to keep your doctor(s) you'll have to promise them that you'll repay them after your bankruptcy case closes, even though you won't owe them any more. That's about your only option to get your doctors not to drop you.
      Filed/discharged/closed Chapter 7 in 2010!

      Comment


      • #4
        As Hub states, it could be office policy to drop a patient for non-payment due to a bk. The sad reality is you cannot force the doctor to provide services to you (unlike a hospital in an emergency).

        I once asked a doctor family member (who every once in a while showed up as a creditor in a case I was handling) what he does. His policy is to write off the loss and continue to treat but treatment requires cash payment at the time of service. Even this can be a burden but it insures that he gets paid on a going forward basis.

        Des.

        Comment


        • #5
          Please go in and talk to both your doctor--you will probably have to make an appointment--and his office staff, especially Accounting. After several of these trips that both 'Hub and I made to our Primary Care physician, we learned that there are at least three different pay schedules that they must adhere to--thanks to Government intrusions.

          1. Insurance. This is the standard. There is a higher rate charged, that because of the requirements of the way the offices must write up their statements. The insurances' bottom line has to cut costs to themselves, etc., so your plan/choices go up, and your co-pay goes up.

          2. Medicare. You are now of an age that you WILL be put on Medicare regardless of whether you want it or not. You will have to purchase gap coverage from one of the insurance providers. Again there is a sliding scale of charges, similar to option #1 above. Yet, this is still actually higher than it needs to be--government regulations sucking at the tit. The only out of this is if you are independently wealthy and can afford to pay your own cost.

          3. Patient Pay. This is what you work out with your doctor and his/her staff. This rate is below what they have to charge a Medicare patient, and I was told that they could not tell me this--but they did. You will likely have to submit a letter declaring your monthly earnings and that you are insolvent.

          I have a catastrophic Health Care policy with my insurance carrier, with a deductible of 3K, and we were fortunate to be able to create an HSA (Health Savings Account) in January 2010. This HSA has essentially paid my 'Patient Pay', and any other co-pays, or reasonable test charges since then.

          The DOWN-side to this is that in order to have an HSA, you have to have an Insurance policy. My monthly premiums for my catastrophic policy has steadily increased with the implementation of Obamacare elements, that with the reduction my summer hours of my PT job, I won't be able to pay the premiums for the summer months.

          I am currently negotiating with the Insurance, a different policy with a 5K deductible, to become effective June 1. We will see. I will let you know how it goes.....
          "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

          "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

          Comment


          • #6
            Angelina, I think you and I will disagree on this - I wish I were old enough to be on Medicare - for seniors it's a Godsend. Medicare by the way, runs with a 3% or so overhead and that's with using ins co's to actually physicially process and pay claims.

            The CHEAPEST private non-profit insurer - like Kaiser - runs with a 15% overhead - from there some private ins co's run a 40% overhead.

            Our system is inefficient, broken, and doesn't cover everyone, to say the least. And I speak from working in the belly of the beast for my full-time job.


            Originally posted by AngelinaCat View Post
            Please go in and talk to both your doctor--you will probably have to make an appointment--and his office staff, especially Accounting. After several of these trips that both 'Hub and I made to our Primary Care physician, we learned that there are at least three different pay schedules that they must adhere to--thanks to Government intrusions.

            1. Insurance. This is the standard. There is a higher rate charged, that because of the requirements of the way the offices must write up their statements. The insurances' bottom line has to cut costs to themselves, etc., so your plan/choices go up, and your co-pay goes up.

            2. Medicare. You are now of an age that you WILL be put on Medicare regardless of whether you want it or not. You will have to purchase gap coverage from one of the insurance providers. Again there is a sliding scale of charges, similar to option #1 above. Yet, this is still actually higher than it needs to be--government regulations sucking at the tit. The only out of this is if you are independently wealthy and can afford to pay your own cost.

            3. Patient Pay. This is what you work out with your doctor and his/her staff. This rate is below what they have to charge a Medicare patient, and I was told that they could not tell me this--but they did. You will likely have to submit a letter declaring your monthly earnings and that you are insolvent.

            I have a catastrophic Health Care policy with my insurance carrier, with a deductible of 3K, and we were fortunate to be able to create an HSA (Health Savings Account) in January 2010. This HSA has essentially paid my 'Patient Pay', and any other co-pays, or reasonable test charges since then.

            The DOWN-side to this is that in order to have an HSA, you have to have an Insurance policy. My monthly premiums for my catastrophic policy has steadily increased with the implementation of Obamacare elements, that with the reduction my summer hours of my PT job, I won't be able to pay the premiums for the summer months.

            I am currently negotiating with the Insurance, a different policy with a 5K deductible, to become effective June 1. We will see. I will let you know how it goes.....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by IamOld View Post
              Angelina, I think you and I will disagree on this - I wish I were old enough to be on Medicare - for seniors it's a Godsend. Medicare by the way, runs with a 3% or so overhead and that's with using ins co's to actually physicially process and pay claims.

              The CHEAPEST private non-profit insurer - like Kaiser - runs with a 15% overhead - from there some private ins co's run a 40% overhead.

              Our system is inefficient, broken, and doesn't cover everyone, to say the least. And I speak from working in the belly of the beast for my full-time job.
              You misunderstood. I am NOT on Medicare, 'Hub is. I am 58 years old and cannot get Medicare until I turn 65. Medicare probably won't be there when I do.

              I have to have and maintain a private insurance policy that I pay for out of my own pocket. With a 3K deductible, the monthly premium started at $315.00 about 15 months ago. About a year ago, it went up to $362.00. That is marginally manageable. But starting June 1, it goes up to $415.00. That plus the $170.00 that 'Hub's gap-filler costs, the money is not going to be there. 'Hub gets SS, a tiny pension, and I only get what my PT job brings in. My hours are reduced during the summer, and I no longer get Unemployment compensation. So that is it.

              I am trying to convert to a different policy with a 5K deductible, with a premium back to around $300.00. I don't know yet if my application has been accepted yet. If it isn't, come June 1, I will be without insurance, because we can't pay for it. I cannot use the HSA to pay the insurance premiums, yet I have to keep the insurance in order to have the HSA.
              "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

              "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

              Comment


              • #8
                Angelina Thank you!!!! That is horrible how much you have to pay even for minimal coverage...absolutely horrible. Occasionally I work with a broker in NYC that does INDIVIDUAL ins only - would you be interested in the name of the firm? We use it sometimes for aged out dependents for our ee's.

                I'd be happy to PM it for you - let me know. I'm not saying they could get you something cheaper/better, BUT it may be worth a call!


                Originally posted by AngelinaCat View Post
                You misunderstood. I am NOT on Medicare, 'Hub is. I am 58 years old and cannot get Medicare until I turn 65. Medicare probably won't be there when I do.

                I have to have and maintain a private insurance policy that I pay for out of my own pocket. With a 3K deductible, the monthly premium started at $315.00 about 15 months ago. About a year ago, it went up to $362.00. That is marginally manageable. But starting June 1, it goes up to $415.00. That plus the $170.00 that 'Hub's gap-filler costs, the money is not going to be there. 'Hub gets SS, a tiny pension, and I only get what my PT job brings in. My hours are reduced during the summer, and I no longer get Unemployment compensation. So that is it.

                I am trying to convert to a different policy with a 5K deductible, with a premium back to around $300.00. I don't know yet if my application has been accepted yet. If it isn't, come June 1, I will be without insurance, because we can't pay for it. I cannot use the HSA to pay the insurance premiums, yet I have to keep the insurance in order to have the HSA.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you received a letter as you quoted, you needed to dump him along time ago.
                  I looked at it more closely and the letter is actually from the group, not specifically my doctor. Chances are good he doesn't even know about it yet. So, I called the group billing office today and they said I can apply for reinstatement and they will take our situation into account. Now I write a letter to their billing office explaining our circumstances and that no, we are not skipping out on paying them. They said they would review our appeal and let us know.

                  I want to thank you all for answering my post. I was so upset yesterday...husband broke the news to me and he was very shaken by it, that made it way worse for me to try and deal with it. So grateful for this forum. So, so grateful.

                  AngelinaCat - I am so sorry you are having to deal with this much more serious issue. We have just changed insurance too, but we are in our 40s so, definitely not even close to what you're facing. You signature quote: "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle" - that is indeed so true. You and your husband are added to our prayers. So many going through such turmoil...it can't go on forever like this. It just can't. (((((HUGS))))))
                  Any opinion expressed is based on personal experience and/or research. i.e.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi IamOld: Yes, please PM me the information. I don't know that he can do anything though. It is my understanding that health insurance companies are not allowed to cross state lines...

                    Thank you
                    "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

                    "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you Irene. That is much appreciated {{{{HUGGS}}}} back/
                      "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

                      "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AngelinaCat View Post
                        Hi IamOld: Yes, please PM me the information. I don't know that he can do anything though. It is my understanding that health insurance companies are not allowed to cross state lines...

                        Thank you
                        Sure, I'll send it to you in a few minutes - it's best to call them - small shop in NYC.

                        Actually re state lines - ins co's can do that - that's a bit of a misnomer - technically they're licensed in states that they do business in...BUT, here is the thing - if FL has more safeguards, than say, AL, you do NOT want this "not crossing state lines" lifted, as then ins co's will go to the state with the worst safeguards...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by IamOld View Post
                          Sure, I'll send it to you in a few minutes - it's best to call them - small shop in NYC.

                          Actually re state lines - ins co's can do that - that's a bit of a misnomer - technically they're licensed in states that they do business in...BUT, here is the thing - if FL has more safeguards, than say, AL, you do NOT want this "not crossing state lines" lifted, as then ins co's will go to the state with the worst safeguards...
                          Thanks for that information. I had never been able to get a good reason regarding the state line issues.
                          "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

                          "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Little update for anyone else finding themselves in a similar spot with their doctor's office (maybe it will help):

                            I called and spoke with a very nice person in the billing department for my group provider, she suggested I send a letter explaining our circumstances. She said it would be reviewed by their department heads and possibly, we could be reinstated.

                            I did exactly as she suggested and penned a lengthly letter telling them exactly why we are in the position we are in. Not sure if they simply took pity on us or if the magic words "filing chapter 7" is what did the trick, but one week after I sent the letter, I received a phone call from my doctor's billing office saying that we were being reinstated.
                            Last edited by IamIrene; 05-31-2011, 02:20 PM. Reason: adding more details
                            Any opinion expressed is based on personal experience and/or research. i.e.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Excellent news!!

                              Originally posted by IamIrene View Post
                              Little update for anyone else finding themselves in a similar spot with their doctor's office (maybe it will help):

                              I called and spoke with a very nice person in the billing department for my group provider, she suggested I send a letter explaining our circumstances. She said it would be reviewed by their department heads and possibly, we could be reinstated.

                              I did exactly as she suggested and penned a lengthly letter telling them exactly why we are in the position we are in. Not sure if they simply took pity on us or if the magic words "filing chapter 7" is what did the trick, but one week after I sent the letter, I received a phone call from my doctor's billing office saying that we were being reinstated.

                              Comment

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