Chapter 13 Dismissed with Prejudice! Will a motion remove the prejudice

[MP2PGROUND0]

I went to see an attorney today for a pro se filing of a chapter 13 i started and was told that my bk was dismissed 2 days ago with prejudice. I was told she could not help me because of the prejudice and I now am not sure what to do. The form she printed for me stated within 10 days someone could i assume file a motions. A little history is that I filed on the 13 of Oct. I was to go to my creditors meeting on the 17th.. I always intended to see an attorney and Today was the first opening i could get that did not conflict with work or doctors ect and in enough time for my meething. I only got one letter in the mail from the court and that was one stated i had the meeting of creditors on the 19th. i went to the court earlier today and was not told it was dismissed and I am not sure of why that was but after sitting with the attorney I amn ot sure what to do. The attorney said I can file a motion to have a reconsideration or at minimal have the prejudice removed. Said the judge was a fair judge but she dont see her reopening the case because the schedules were not turned in on time. I never got the letter as I explained to her about a deadline for the schedules and this is why I was so shocked. I am looking for any advise at all on where to go from here. I do plan to try to do a motion letter and the research of that is why brought me to this board. I plan to file it first thing in the am. I needed to file by the 15th of lat month is the only reason I went prose in the first place and alwasy had the intention to go wee an attorney. it takes about 2 weeks or so to get in here with attorneys and has takend me til now to try to get int. I have only had my job for a short time which is why I had to file and between this and my health I am where I am.

can you please just give me any advise on what I can do to fix this issue. I goal is to have the case either repoened or at least the prejudice removed so the attorney can refile for me with all schedules. Do you think this is possible. tell me what you guys think or what I can do to help this happen.

Thnx in advance.

[justbroke]

Okay, at the request of another member, I'm going to look at this, but I'm having dinner with the children right now. I'll be back and give you my opinion of this. "With Prejudice" is serious, so let me come back to this. In the meantime, can you tell me what the entire "with prejudice" ruling is? It's important as to whether you're barred from ever discharging those debts. While you do that, I'll eat dinner and come back!

[MP2PGROUND0]

Says no refile for 180 according to the attorney I say today.. The document says the same barring refile for 180 days. Its says reasoning is not filing necessary papers which is why I was in the attorneys office. i actually had the apt with the attorney made over 9 days that was the first any attorney in the city could get me in. I had a consult with another attorney for monday which was her first open.. all other were after the 17th which was when i was due back in court.

[justbroke]

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

I went to see an attorney today for a pro se filing of a chapter 13 i started and was told that my bk was dismissed 2 days ago with prejudice. I was told she could not help me because of the prejudice and I now am not sure what to do. The form she printed for me stated within 10 days someone could i assume file a motions.

Almost all motions filed by the Court have a 10-day period in which you can file a Motion to Vacate the judgement. The attorney you talked to probably didn't think they had time to get all the paperwork in order. But more about this later...

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

A little history is that I filed on the 13 of Oct. I was to go to my creditors meeting on the 17th.. I always intended to see an attorney and Today was the first opening i could get that did not conflict with work or doctors ect and in enough time for my meething. I only got one letter in the mail from the court and that was one stated i had the meeting of creditors on the 19th.

You missed the Meeting of Creditors? This is a meeting you can't miss. In some cases, you can ask the Trustee to continue the meeting, but you can't just "miss" the meeting without prior leave for continuance!

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

i went to the court earlier today and was not told it was dismissed and I am not sure of why that was but after sitting with the attorney I amn ot sure what to do.

You went to the Bankruptcy Court for what? Did you actually ask the Clerk if your case was dismissed or were you there for other business?

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

The attorney said I can file a motion to have a reconsideration or at minimal have the prejudice removed. Said the judge was a fair judge but she dont see her reopening the case because the schedules were not turned in on time.

First, if it's been less than 10 days since the Order was signed, the case is NOT closed. It's pending closing. If you could bring all the paperwork to Order within the 10 days and file a motion before the 10-days are up, you could have the court reconsider the dismissal. (Also known as a Motion to Reconsider.) Time is of the essence.

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

I never got the letter as I explained to her about a deadline for the schedules and this is why I was so shocked. I am looking for any advise at all on where to go from here.

They are not required to send you any notice of a deadline for Schedules, as most cases are filed with all the paperwork at the same time. I'm a pro se filer, so don't take what I'm about to write, personally. Pro se filers ahve to be diligent in all paperwork. You absolutely must have an account on PACER and you should check it daily before the 341 Meeting.

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

I do plan to try to do a motion letter and the research of that is why brought me to this board. I plan to file it first thing in the am. I needed to file by the 15th of lat month is the only reason

Needed to file your petition or needed to file your schedules by 10/15/2009???

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

I went prose in the first place and alwasy had the intention to go wee an attorney. it takes about 2 weeks or so to get in here with attorneys and has takend me til now to try to get int. I have only had my job for a short time which is why I had to file and between this and my health I am where I am.

Many attorneys won't even take a pro se case once it's been filed, because they usually are incurring a mess. These cases will generally take more time to fix, so some attorneys will shy away from them. Even then, it does take time to prepare a Chapter 13 case and a Chapter 13 Plan.

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

can you please just give me any advise on what I can do to fix this issue. I goal is to have the case either repoened or at least the prejudice removed so the attorney can refile for me with all schedules. Do you think this is possible. tell me what you guys think or what I can do to help this happen.

You can Motion to Reconsider and then try to get this corrected.

The reason why you get it dismissed with Prejudice is because your actions indicate that you filed just to benefit from the Automatic Stay. This may not have been your goal, but it appears as if you filed just to get the Automatic Stay protection, and then did nothing else.

If I were you, I'd be working on that Motion to Reconsider and Vacate Dismissal immediately. You must have a really good reason why you didn't follow through with the paperwork. Just because the court didn't notify you that you needed additional paperwork in 15 days, is not cause. They never told me I needed to file my plan 15 days, but I knew because I read all the procedures prior to filing.

You may want to ask, in your Motion to Reconsider, for at least the removal of the prejudice from the dismissal so that you can refile through an Attorney. I'd really like to know the circumstances under which you filed and thought you had to file without an attorney.

Please feel free to ask any specific questions.

[MP2PGROUND0]

No i did not miss the meeting its next week. The meeting of creditors is next week.

[justbroke]

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

No i did not miss the meeting its next week. The meeting of creditors is next week.

Your case is already dismissed, so no 341 Meeting. You need to get that Motion to Reconsider done!

Also, I had a bunch of questions in my last post that may help me help you more... should you want and choose to have more help.

[MP2PGROUND0]

You went to the Bankruptcy Court for what? Did you actually ask the Clerk if your case was dismissed or were you there for other business?


>>>I WENT TO THE COURT TO PRINT SOME DOCUMENTS FOR THE ATTORNEYS MEETEING I HAD.. THEY SAID NOTHING.. THE ATTORNEY TOLD ME THE CASE WAS DISMISSED. NOT THE COURT THEY JUST GAVE ME MY COPIES AND TOOK MY CERTIFICATE I FILED.


Needed to file your petition or needed to file your schedules by 10/15/2009???


>>>>>I DONT UNDERSTAND ARE YOU SAYING I NEEDED TO FILE THE VACATE BY OCT 15TH THEY JUST DISMISSED 2 DAYS AGO SO I HAD NO IDEA. THEY ATTORNEY SAID THE SCHEDULES WERE DUE THE 28TH OF OCT AND THAT THIS IS WHY THE DISMISSAL. SHE MADE NO ATTEMPT TO DO ANYTHING SHE SAID SHE COULD NOT UNLESS I GOT THE JUDGE TO REOPEN OR REMOVE PREJUDICE.






*****************



THE ATTORNEY SAID THEY WILL JUST MAKE THE ADJUSTMENTS ALL SHE NEED IS THE CASE REOPENED OR THE PREJUDICE REMOVED. I HAVE HAD A LOT OF OBSTICALES IN MY LIFE AND AM TRYING TO GET MYSELF BACK ON THE RIGHT PATH... I HAVE BEEN OUT OF WORK FOR A WHILE AND HAD TO HAVE A JOB FOR 60 OR MORE DAYS TO BE ABLE TO FILE. I HAVE NOT HAD A JOB OUT SIDE OF BEING SELF EMPLOYED SINCE THE 90S AND THEREFORE FINDING A JOB WAS HARD NO ONE WANTED TO HIRE SOMEONE THAT IN THEIR EYES HAD NOT WORKED FOR ANYONE SINCE 99. IT TOOK ME 3 WEEKS TO GET ANY APPOINTMENT WITH ATTORNEYS AND THIS ONE WAS THE FIRST.

I AM TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT I NEED TO FILE TO TRY AND GET THE CASE REOPENED OR TO AT LEAST GET THE PREJUDICE REMOVED. MY INTENT IS TO EXPLIN TO THE JUDGE THAT IT WAS MY INTENT TO FILE WITH AN ATTORNEY AS SOON AS I GOT AN OPPORTUNITY AND COMPLETE MY FILING. MY INITIAL FRIEND WHO HELPED WAS NOT AS KNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT THE PROCESS AS HE LET ON AND THEREFORE I HAD TO SEEK THE PROPER ASSISTANCE WHICH I WAS DOING. I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THEM THE NAME OF THE COUNCIL AND LET THEM KNOW THAT WE PLAN TO FILE ALL SCHEDULES AS SOON AS WE CAN.

THIS IS WHAT I AM ASKING ... THNX SO MUCH IN ADVANCE. I NEVER WOULD HAVE IMAGINED THEM TO THINK THIS.

[justbroke]

Okay, just a a friendly reminder, please don't post in caps. It makes it difficult to read.

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

>>>I WENT TO THE COURT TO PRINT SOME DOCUMENTS FOR THE ATTORNEYS MEETEING I HAD.. THEY SAID NOTHING.. THE ATTORNEY TOLD ME THE CASE WAS DISMISSED. NOT THE COURT THEY JUST GAVE ME MY COPIES AND TOOK MY CERTIFICATE I FILED.

They won't tell you anything about the case unless you ask. if you were just filing something, they don't even lookup the case. They just take the item and 'file stamp" it.

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

>>>>>I DONT UNDERSTAND ARE YOU SAYING I NEEDED TO FILE THE VACATE BY OCT 15TH THEY JUST DISMISSED 2 DAYS AGO SO I HAD NO IDEA. THEY ATTORNEY SAID THE SCHEDULES WERE DUE THE 28TH OF OCT AND THAT THIS IS WHY THE DISMISSAL. SHE MADE NO ATTEMPT TO DO ANYTHING SHE SAID SHE COULD NOT UNLESS I GOT THE JUDGE TO REOPEN OR REMOVE PREJUDICE.

I was just wondering what the 10/15 date was... was it just the date that you needed to file your petition by for some other reason? And, yes, she can't represent you since you went "pro se". You need to either Motion to Reconsider to keep the case opened (it's not closed yet because the 10 days haven't elapsed), or at least get the judge to reconsider the "prejudice" part of the ruling.

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

THE ATTORNEY SAID THEY WILL JUST MAKE THE ADJUSTMENTS ALL SHE NEED IS THE CASE REOPENED OR THE PREJUDICE REMOVED. I HAVE HAD A LOT OF OBSTICALES IN MY LIFE AND AM TRYING TO GET MYSELF BACK ON THE RIGHT PATH... I HAVE BEEN OUT OF WORK FOR A WHILE AND HAD TO HAVE A JOB FOR 60 OR MORE DAYS TO BE ABLE TO FILE. I HAVE NOT HAD A JOB OUT SIDE OF BEING SELF EMPLOYED SINCE THE 90S AND THEREFORE FINDING A JOB WAS HARD NO ONE WANTED TO HIRE SOMEONE THAT IN THEIR EYES HAD NOT WORKED FOR ANYONE SINCE 99. IT TOOK ME 3 WEEKS TO GET ANY APPOINTMENT WITH ATTORNEYS AND THIS ONE WAS THE FIRST.

Why did you not file Chapter 7? Are you trying to save your home? Your right on the attorneys though. I did end up filing on my own, but after much research. The attorneys don't really do anything last minute. Everyone is really busy with all the foreclosures and bankruptcies (usually the same attorneys!).

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

I AM TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT I NEED TO FILE TO TRY AND GET THE CASE REOPENED OR TO AT LEAST GET THE PREJUDICE REMOVED.

A Motion to Reconsider. Just explain what happens, but be sure to ask for "relief" at the end. As in, I pray that the court reconsiders it's dismisal order dates XX/XX/XXXX and allow me to employ counsel, or, at the least, rescind the prejudice so that I may refile with counsel.

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

MY INTENT IS TO EXPLIN TO THE JUDGE THAT IT WAS MY INTENT TO FILE WITH AN ATTORNEY AS SOON AS I GOT AN OPPORTUNITY AND COMPLETE MY FILING. MY INITIAL FRIEND WHO HELPED WAS NOT AS KNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT THE PROCESS AS HE LET ON AND THEREFORE I HAD TO SEEK THE PROPER ASSISTANCE WHICH I WAS DOING. I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THEM THE NAME OF THE COUNCIL AND LET THEM KNOW THAT WE PLAN TO FILE ALL SCHEDULES AS SOON AS WE CAN.

Sounds good.

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

THIS IS WHAT I AM ASKING ... THNX SO MUCH IN ADVANCE. I NEVER WOULD HAVE IMAGINED THEM TO THINK THIS.

You can write the Motion to Reconsider just like writing a letter to the Judge. Make sure you make your points on why you failed to file the papers... that it was an excusable error on your part, and that you are retaining counsel.

Best of luck to you.

[MP2PGROUND0]

I WENT TO THE COURT TO PRINT MY LIST OF CREDITORS FOR THE ATTORNEY. I NEVER ASKED ABOUT THE CASE I JUST PAID FOR MY PRINTS AND GAVE THEM THE CERTIFICATE FOR THE COUNSELING.

she looked up the case to get the case number. and told me the number i wrote it on there and that was it as far as at the court.

...


So from the readings I need to file a motion to reconsider which is what the judge said. She said at that time she will make file the appropriate documents.

I will write the letter tonight and take it to the court. At that time I will let you guys know what happened. Here is what i dont get though. It seems it would have been better if the attorney would have just did the schedules so we can enter them all together.. seems the effects would have been better.


Am I clear.. again thnx so much and sorry for the caps.

[justbroke]

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

So from the readings I need to file a motion to reconsider which is what the judge said. She said at that time she will make file the appropriate documents.

I think you meant the attorney said that. Yes, once you file and the Judge rules on that... you should be okay.

Originally Posted by MP2PGROUND0

I will write the letter tonight and take it to the court. At that time I will let you guys know what happened. Here is what i dont get though. It seems it would have been better if the attorney would have just did the schedules so we can enter them all together.. seems the effects would have been better.

We will be waiting! Because you are pro se, an attorney can't represent you without entering an appearance. Because your case is almost dismissed, it's easiest to not complicate it more by having an attorney enter an appearnce. The best ting is for you to get, at best, the Dismissal Order vacated, and, at worst, the prejudice removed so.

To tell you the truth, I'm a bit surprised that you found an attorney that is willing to take the case. This is a good thing.

[klandsb]

Justbroke. How was that dinner
Just curious how do you highlight the original question ???? I think maybe that is why he is using captial letters ...
When u say look at pacer everyday before the 341 is that for pro se filers only ?? and exactly what are u looking for there ??
Be nice I am a newbie remember ...

[justbroke]

Originally Posted by klandsb

Justbroke. How was that dinner

Nothing spectacular because it's a weeknight. So Hamburger Helper with Garlic Mashed Potatoes and Corn.

Originally Posted by klandsb

Just curious how do you highlight the original question ???? I think maybe that is why he is using captial letters ...

Well, the QUOTE button helps, but then I do a bunch of cutting and pasting to format the response so that it looks neat!

Originally Posted by klandsb

When u say look at pacer everyday before the 341 is that for pro se filers only ?? and exactly what are u looking for there ??
Be nice I am a newbie remember ...

Yes, only for pro se filers. It is so you can stay on top of things AS SOON as they pop up... not a week later! Some things, like a Motion being Granted or other Orders, have a 10-day period to respond to them.