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341 Woes

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  • 341 Woes

    Had my 341 today for ch7... I knew going into the meeting it was going to be rough. My attorney and the trustee have previous history and dont mesh well. It started off well and I thought the meeting was just about over then he starts grilling me about what I did with my $3000 tax return and basically not believing I bought groceries and needed items with it. So now he wants bank statements, the rest of my tax schedules, and the address of a previous business partner who stole from me. Im soo sick to my stomach that I had to pull over and threw up on the way home. I was on the edge of tears the entire 50 min drive home....

  • #2
    I know it can be disheartening, but the Trustee will likely get nothing in the end. It is their job to probe. The $3,000 is fare game as it is "recent" (prior to filing) and they want to make sure you didn't hide it. Very normal. Documentation is always your friend. You should have provided the Trustee with all the tax schedules (a complete return) from the beginning. If your attorney said to just send the 1040A/1040 portion, that's usually not a good thing. It appears you have or had a business so the Trustee certainly wants to see the details (Schedule C, others).

    The reason the Trustee wants the name of your prior business partner so the Trustee can determine if the Trustee herself is going to sue the business partner. It's not about you. When someone owes you money and you enter bankruptcy, the Trustee will investigate if the money is "recoverable" on behalf of the bankruptcy estate. That's their job and some of them do it pretty well.

    As for your Trustee and attorney being at odds, this happens quite often. The Chapter 7 (panel) Trustees are just regular attorneys (or other professionals like CPAs). These panel trustees are sometimes rash and do things that make no sense at all and that frustrates certain attorneys. As to whether or not there is money to recover for the estate, will always pit the debtors attorney against the Chapter 7 Trustee. (Most of these attorneys know each other well.). It is and should be an adversarial relationship.

    I don't see anything you should worry about at all. I hope your attorney told you the same! This is just normal practice in liquidating a bankruptcy estate.

    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


    • #3
      Thank you for the reply. It made me feel better. I already feel terrible about having to file bankruptcy because i am over my head in bills. I have no problem showing that I am not hiding money bc there is none to hide. My attorney did advise me thing like this happen and not to worry but that didnt help lol.

      thank you again


      • #4
        Our tax refund this year was $9,475. We always get a decent refund, but this year we had even more due to tuition credit. Your post made me a little nervous, so I went back to see what I could see on bank statements. (There was no reason for me to be "nervous" ... as I have already been keeping track of everything, I know we haven't hidden anything, and we haven't done anything that I would consider luxurious or extravagant.) But I tried to look through it as they would look through it -- mainly paying attention to anything over $100.

        I see all of the usual bills. We paid off our second mortgage and the bathroom shower I had recently used the Lowe's card for. Those two things are only $1,700 of it. I see eyeglasses. Kids' sports. Groceries. Medical bills. Veterinary bills. Weed eater, freezer, microwave.

        Life. It happens.

        So sorry to hear you are literally sick about this -- but I honestly don't think you have anything to worry about. We all feel terrible about having to file bankruptcy. Some, maybe more than others... but we all feel it.

        This will all be behind you soon, and you can have that fresh start. Take care & good luck!


        • #5
          I had a similar bad feeling about my 341, when the trustee asked for a statement from a prepaid card account that, it turns out, doesn't do statements (didn't find that out until I called them after the meeting.) I thought I was screwed but my attorney told me not to worry; I figure if my attorney isn't worried, I'm not worried, because they know how things work WAY better than I do.

          It probably didn't help that the couple who had their hearing right before me were in for their SECOND 341 hearing (they were apparently completely unprepared the 1st time around), showed up in matching Scooby Doo t-shirts, and their attorney (who I suspect was probably a family member who has never done BK law) was also in a t-shirt. The trustee went straight-up "Judge Judy" on them and then I had to go next. lol
          This post does not constitute legal advice. If you use this advice instead of that of a lawyer, God help you.
          Filed CH 7: 5/11/17 341: 6/12/17 Discharge: 8/14/17


          • #6
            So the trustee had requested additional info, which I mailed to my attorney within a week. However they were doing road work at my attorneys office and did not deliver his mail for a week. As a result the trustee has moved to dismiss my bk and I have to go to a second 341 tomorrow where I imagine I will be raked over the coals. I didnt followup on my atty getting papers as I was sick. I have records where I went to the ER...

            I honestly do not want to meet this man again tomorrow.


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mamedio View Post
              So the trustee had requested additional info, which I mailed to my attorney within a week. However they were doing road work at my attorneys office and did not deliver his mail for a week. As a result the trustee has moved to dismiss my bk and I have to go to a second 341 tomorrow where I imagine I will be raked over the coals. I didnt followup on my atty getting papers as I was sick. I have records where I went to the ER...

              I honestly do not want to meet this man again tomorrow.
              I wouldn't worry about any Motion to Dismiss. These are common and are very easily overcome by providing the information as required under 11 USC 521 (Duties of Debtor). (That part of the code basically reads that you must comply with any requests, especially for documentation, from the Trustee.). I would personally bring another copy with me to the continued 341 Meeting. I would also try to speak with my attorney today and certainly before the continued meeting.

              There is still nothing to "worry" about. Everything I have read from you is about documentation, documentation and documentation. The fact that your attorney did not send the requested documentation to satisfy the Trustee's curiosity is disappointing, but that's on your attorney. (A reasonable attorney would have their mail 'held" at the post office if they know of delivery issues. A reasonable attorney's office would send someone to pick up the mail everyday.).

              This documentation has been missing for over 30 days and I'm sure that's why the Trustee moved to dismiss. Again, a motion to dismiss is easily overcome and I'm sure the Trustee would personally withdraw the motion should you (or your attorney) actually timeline provide the information.
              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
              Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


              • #8
                He filed motion on the 28th, which i wish my atty would have got him the info in time since if the trustee got the info I would not have to go to the second 341. Ughhhh cest la vie lol...


                • #9
                  Some attorneys are just not that diligent or are too buried under too many cases. Their caseload, however, shouldn't negatively affect any particular case and certainly not your case. Hopefully this is all cleared up tomorrow.
                  Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                  Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                  Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                  I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


                  • #10
                    T minus 25 minutes.... Say a prayer for me


                    • #11
                      Praise jesus thats over

                      So I arrive early to the courthouse as I like to arrive early for everything. As I am pulling in somebody was leaving and gave me their parking ticket so I wouldnt have to buy one... I was hoping this was a sign of things to come. (its a lot where you buy a ticket and put it on your dash, and its good for all day)

                      I met one of the other attorneys in the bathroom and he said the trustee was in a good mood. HELL YEAH

                      So my attorney showed up at 1155 for my noon appt.. Great I thought, no time to talk beforehand... He asked how I was and on the verge of tears explained I hated this and was worried I would be railed again for everything.

                      12:06 the trustee comes out and calls us in. He started the recorder and advised this was a continuation of my 341.
                      He questioned my tax return and my business losses for 2015/2016... But this time I was prepared. I had submitted over 150 pages of documents to him before the meeting. I answered all of his questions and had papers to backup the questions about payday loans and money in paypal.

                      12:13 he looked over everything and stopped on a couple pages like he was going to question some more things, but stopped himself amd uttered those magical words "after reviewing the testimony from the previous meeting and from the questions today I am moving to have this meeting closed" He wished me good luck in the future and I think I shocked him when I stuck my hand out to shake his hand and thank him for his time. He had a smile on his face and my attorney and I walked out of his office...

                      I know its just the beginning but I have never been happier.

                      This part is over and now onto a new beginning.

                      I know this post will show up when somebody such as myself starts thinking the worst about their up and coming 341 meeting, let me offer some advice for somebody who had 2 meetings that were completely different from each other...

                      1. Be prepared, you might not have the best attorney so always have copies of everything to backup your claims. My ch7 was mainly payday loans and personal loans. I had documents to backup the history of each loan and show a pattern of them.

                      2. When submitting tax returns make sure you include all schedules not just the main 1040

                      3. Honesty really is the best policy. Trustees are people too. When he requested my bank statements I gave him everything, including a bank acct I started after filing and my paypal transactions. Also my balance in 401k all of which was not requested. I was 100% transparant.

                      4. The trustee may be brash because hes trying to catch you in a lie. When you dont lie you dont have to worry about keeping your story straight. Its tue same everytime. My trustee questioned a 12k loss last year for my business and I was able to back it up with documents showing where the loss was.

                      Would I want to do it again?, no.... Would I?, without a doubt because now I know what to expect going in and know that this small hurdle will lead to a better life.


                      • #12
                        So glad to hear it all worked out well for you. Congrats!


                        • #13
                          Sounds very successful..congratulations and good for you being so prepared and early
                          Filed Chapter 13 - 07/20/12
                          Discharged 8/2/16


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