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Just found out about forfeiture of tax refunds - kind of a deal breaker for Chapter 7

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  • #16
    Originally posted by despritfreya View Post

    There should be no problem with the exemption you claimed in the newer vehicle. As to the other one. . .

    You are in Arizona - correct? Please give me your Trustee's initials.

    Des.
    LW.

    Comment


    • #17
      LW is a tough trustee. If you had a different Trustee I would have suggested taking digital photos of the vehicle, inside and out, email them to him or her and ask for an abandonment.

      IMO your Trustee has a reputation for trying to get every dime he can. I think a better approach is to sit and wait for him to either try to extort money from you so that you can keep the non-exempt vehicle or see if he abandons it when he closes the case. I wouldn't rock the boat. The newer vehicle should be fine.

      Des.

      Comment


      • #18
        That's what I was worried about. Thank you for the information and all of your help.

        Comment


        • #19
          My 341 hearing was today. Not too much of a fuss. Trustee wants to know why I pulled $600 out of my checking account on the day I filed. Since I had filed the emergency form, I didn't file the financial affairs, exemptions, assets, property, etc until the 7 and 14 day deadlines. I can't see anywhere that states a time frame as to how much money I had in my account/cash in hand at the time of filing. The money was taken out to pay for rent. My dilemma is, if I took the money out and paid rent with it before I filed, am I in the clear? The trustee is telling me that $300 of the withdrawal is property of the estate.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by icanteven View Post
            My 341 hearing was today. Not too much of a fuss. Trustee wants to know why I pulled $600 out of my checking account on the day I filed. Since I had filed the emergency form, I didn't file the financial affairs, exemptions, assets, property, etc until the 7 and 14 day deadlines. I can't see anywhere that states a time frame as to how much money I had in my account/cash in hand at the time of filing. The money was taken out to pay for rent. My dilemma is, if I took the money out and paid rent with it before I filed, am I in the clear? The trustee is telling me that $300 of the withdrawal is property of the estate.
            It is based on your balance on the day of filing. We usually like to say it's the balance, as posted by the bank, after overnight processing on the day before you filed. Since your account showed $600 on the day you filed, that tells the Trustee just how much money you had. The fact is that you had "cash" or a cash equivalent in your possession at the time you filed.

            despritfreya can be more precise, but the fact that you had $600 on the day you filed, is what drives this question. Even if you had written a check or had "cash" equivalents in your possession (money orders, bank checks, traveler's checks, etc), then that is still part of your Cash on Hand and Cash on Deposit.

            I think the Trustee was actually being nice since it is likely that you didn't exempt "cash on hand" when you filled out Schedule B/C. I'm not sure if the Trustee informed you, but you probably also need to file an amended Schedule B showing the $600 in cash at the time of filing AND an amended Schedule C showing the exemption under A.R.S. ยง 33-1126(A)(9). (I typically don't tell people the exact statute to use for exemptions, so please be sure to double check what I wrote).
            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

            Comment


            • #21
              Your trustee may very well ask for the turnover of the funds. On the day you filed you state that there was $600 in the bank. You also state that you pulled the money out on that same day. It does not matter what you were going to use the funds for. As pointed out, only $300 was protected. If the trustee asks for the difference you will need to pay it.

              If you did not claim the exemption then, as JB suggests, you probably should amend Schedule B to show the exact dollar amount that was in the bank on the day you filed before you pulled the money out since "cash on hand" is not protected. Also amend Schedule C to protect $300 of the amount that was in the bank.

              Des.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by despritfreya View Post
                Your trustee may very well ask for the turnover of the funds. On the day you filed you state that there was $600 in the bank. You also state that you pulled the money out on that same day. It does not matter what you were going to use the funds for. As pointed out, only $300 was protected. If the trustee asks for the difference you will need to pay it.

                If you did not claim the exemption then, as JB suggests, you probably should amend Schedule B to show the exact dollar amount that was in the bank on the day you filed before you pulled the money out since "cash on hand" is not protected. Also amend Schedule C to protect $300 of the amount that was in the bank.

                Des.
                I believe I understand. The extra kick was after I pulled the money out, I remembered my car insurance payment was in process - which the bank covered, but charged me a fee for the overdraft. I wish I would have known. Would it have mattered if I pulled the money out the day before instead?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by icanteven View Post
                  Would it have mattered if I pulled the money out the day before instead?
                  Please re-read what I wrote above. Cash on hand is cash on hand, whether it's in your wallet, stuffed in your mattress, or sitting on your kitchen table and is "designated" for rent. If you had taken it out the day before and actually handed it to the landlord (and they could swear to that if necessary, or you'd have a receipt for the day before), you could prove that it was not "on-hand" on the day of filing.

                  Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                  Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                  Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                  I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                  Comment

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