Any of you 13ers get jealous of the 7 filers?

[CAB_44]

Well, Miss Puff~ like several here have said....it still stinks, no matter what or which way you turn it~
I don't envy what you're having to go through either~ it has to be difficult for you too....I feel for you too~
It's all stressful, I would hate to give up my home and such, and I am grateful because we have spent so many years fixing it up,and it's finally getting to where I really love it~ but it's been part of the debt too....we've spent SO much money on this house~
Emotional pain I think is worse than "money pain"....so~ you are fighting a battle as hard as I am~ I don't have any ill feelings for chapter 7 filers~ I in a way wish I could do it as well, getting it over~ 5 years is a tough thought, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel~ it's all GOOD !!!!!!!!

[jane taylor]

I have to keep reminding myself that if we hadn't been able to file a Chapter 13 we would be in MUCH worse shape. It is so hard, especially with teenagers who understand the situation somewhat and then don't understand at the same time.

[SinkingFast]

I have to keep reminding myself that if we hadn't been able to file a Chapter 13 we would be in MUCH worse shape. It is so hard, especially with teenagers who understand the situation somewhat and then don't understand at the same time.

I can't even begin to tell you what the last 2.5 years has done to our kids.

Son got lucky. He got to finish up his Senior year at his High School. When we moved, he went to college here. So it was kinda sorta the same for him in that respect. He was moving on. BUT, he never gets to go HOME. The other day, he was home for lunch before going to work and he said, "I want to go HOME." I told him HOME wasn't there any more.

Our girls lost their youth. Their last fling Senior year of High School,........ They aren't doing it. They gave fitting in at the new High School, and participating in activities and sports the old college try last year. Their Junior year. They didn't fit in. They knew it. So why bother this year.

One daughter has set up to graduate Mid Term and start to college in January. The other daughter is going to College thru the High School Early College program. She's never at the High School.

I knew they were in pain and just working thru it, but I didn't know the level until I started reading papers. My one daughter that's in the Early College program has been writing about "Life" in her English class essays. I have cried from reading those windows into their lives.

[jane taylor]

SF,

I hear you and my heart breaks for all the kids going through this. It is hard enough on adults. While I know that we are better off than a lot of people in the world and I am truly grateful, it still doesn't change the situation. I can't tell you how much shame and guilt I carry around because I don't think I'm providing well for my family. There are days when I feel like I'm walking around with a scarlet "B" on my forehead.

I don't want anything luxurious. Just new shoes and a haircut for my daughter and a bedspread for my son.

I know I'm getting off on a tangent, but I really hate it when people who are in better shape financially look at us as irresponsible and less intelligent. I know that nobody can make us feel anything without our consent, but when your own family looks down their noses, it is hard.

Guess it's just a little tougher this week than others. Our roof needs replacing and we've had major car repairs on both vehicles on top of my husband's hospital bills!

[CAB_44]

Gosh Jane~ so sorry to hear your story~ it's so sad~
Same to you SinkingFast~
I guess I have been fortunate so far~ our daughter knows about our situation, we've been honest with her~ she told me (when we were having a heart to heart talk about it) ~ that she was not ashamed, and she was not going to be depressed about it,and that we souldn't feel ashamed either....
I think it's because ....so far.....we are still living without much changes...but that's because we haven't filed yet....it's actually been better, because I have been able to get her some things she's needed....but she has a job too, and she has bought a lot of her things for herself. This is her Senior year, and so far, she doesn't seem to be down and out....~ I'm certain that both of your children have had some jobs and have done the same......
I think our situations is somewhat different~ you both (SF and Jane) are going thru a 7...is that right??? Both have lost jobs.etc.??
We haven't had that happen, so I can only imagine how hard it must be for the both of your families~ it's heartbreaking......absolutely heartbreaking.....
I'm just so sorry for you both~ I don't know what else to say~ it's so sad.....
I'm thinking about both of you and your families.....
Christina~

[jane taylor]

Thanks, Christina. We are in a Chapter 13 which as you know means we're in it for awhile! My son graduates next year and my daughter will be a freshman in high school. We did have three job losses over a span of two years, I had a horrible reaction to a medication last summer which spawned numerous problems and then my husband had surgery with several complications two months ago. Other than that we are OK--LOL!

I am working really hard on getting over my anger and resentment toward God and my family. While I've never really been a "religious" person (rules for the sake of rules) per se, I've always considered myself to be a woman of faith.

I've been reading "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" and it's helped. Not to mention the support and love of dear friends.

It is a blessing to have wonderful "cyber friends," too.

Peace,
jane

[davids]

Judge Judy...

None of it is fun! I started in a 13 and converted to a 7, so I've seen both sides of it.

IMHO, while Chapter 7 can be UGLY, at least at some point the bleeding stops (mine actually has not, but COME ON APRIL 2007). It just goes on and on and on in a 13

It was a relief when we converted, not to be under the thumb of Judge Judy anymore (our Chapter 13 Trustee LOOKED and ACTED exactly like Judge Judy )

Judge Dread come to my mind.....

"I knewwwww you was going to say that.....!"

[bkadv]

For those thirteeners who don't know........seven is just not so great as it may seem. It's like I told my husband " anyone who files bankruptcy and thinks they will dance off into the sunset is crazy". There are many, many issues that will arise for years to come after having filed bankruptcy that one does not anticipate. We are now well over a year into a chapter 7, and case is still not closed. It has been a very tough road, and many nights of sleep have been lost.

[InLimbo]

SF & Jane, I think I know how you both feel as I have 2 teenage girls myself. As you know we are just now in the process of our chapter 7 with no way of knowing how it's going to pan out. I confided in my oldest daughter (the one that goes to community college) about our bk before we filed in September. She seem to understand and actually said she was glad and didn't think it could be any worst than what we've went thru these last couple of years. I then had to tell her that next year when she transfers to UNCC (a college more expensive) to finish and get her degree, that me and dad would not be able to fund it for her. Our credit would be completely shot and she would have to get student loans. She understood but she also looked very concerned. It just makes me sick that we are having to make her pay for her last 2 years of school. But we didn't want it to be a surprise when next year comes and that is why we told her. My youngest daughter which is 17, has not be told yet, but she has overhead conversations and probably knows whats up. I didn't tell her becuase right now her life is ALL about her. That's okay with me and all I want her to worry about is HER.
I feel like we have been a disappointment to our girls. Even though our bk came after a 4 month layoff, I still feel so ashamed. I feel like this is the time in my girls life that they need us the most and financially we have not been able to be there for them like we should. But I am so thankful for all that the Lord has given us...our home, our health, our love for one another, our family and the list just goes on & on.
Our storms are the hardest time to praise him, but this is the times that he is carrying us!

[jane taylor]

InLimbo:

I feel that I am a disappointment to my kids, too. Although I know that there is so much more to life than "things," I do want my kids to be reasonably comfortable. I don't think that there is anything wrong with wanting good things for our children. The problem is when we live beyond our means. We have just been discussing that here at work. It would be so helpful if our son had his own vehicle to take to school and work. I'm not saying that I want him to have a BMW, just safe and reliable transportation.

When I feel down about the situation, I start naming my blessings and find that I have so much more to be thankful for than to complain about.

[CAB_44]

Okay~ well, I debated about replying to this post~ mostly because I don't want someone to misconstrue what I am trying to say, but will probably screw up....hahaha~ so don't everyone jump down my throat at once......LOL

First....InLimbo and Jane~I think you both are very intelligent people....seem very likable, smart, funny~all of the amenities of a great people!

But reading your posts.....you guys sound as though you feel you have both totally failed at everything in your life~mostly with your kids.....

LISTEN TO ME~ it's NOT a bad thing to want good things for your kiddos....BUT~
I BET you both have done everything to the best of your ability to do the right things in raising kiddos, having homes/jobs/ etc etc....

STOP BEATING YOURSELVES UP thinking that you have failed your kids of the things that all the other kids probably/might have (but whose parents are just barely floating above water themselves) and probably "shouldn't" have~

I TOO am GUILTY of giving my kids the things that they "want"...however....this BK thing has FORCED me into the reality of "you know...what I want and what I NEED are two very different things"

I can honestly say~ I REGRET GIVING my kids cars.....we should have made them BUY their own cars....SAVE their OWN MONEY....I feel a failure in that I have GIVEN my kids everything...it's never been fancy...BUT~
I see that when we purchased our son his Senior year a new Honda Civic EX, he trashed it (even though he saw how dearly his mother babied her car washing/ twice weekly waxing / once monthly) over a period of time.....but he ruined it...and I thought I taught him better.....

our daughter whom we didn't buy a NEW car for but- she has done the same thing...HAD I MADE them purchase their own cars...they maybe would've taken better care of them.....I've noticed that everything I have given them, they have inadvertantly taken advantage of...we have spoiled them beyond repair......and spoiled...........oh my goodness....our son is now in debt above and beyond and is thinking BK himself.....(I'm ashamed, because I feel it is my fault~ although I know he is an adult and has done this for himself at this point...see..I beat myself up regularly too)....
I DO truly REGRET giving my kids everything.....it's made them less appreciative~ they say THANKS Mom and Dad...but do they really mean it???????
I know it's important for kids to feel as though they "fit in" to a degree...and I do mean a small degree....
I think we as parents make it TOO easy for them to "figure out life" for themselves...so that when something does happen...they don't know what to do....
All generations want their kids to have more and better than they had it~ I hear that a millionn times a day~ BUT~
Are we really "that bad off" ....NOOOOOO !!!!!!!! I think NOT!!!!!!!!!
I believe that it is part of the reason why I am in BK.....TOO MUCH "STUFF".....had to have what everyone else had...do everything for my kids what they did for their kids.....when really...I"M RUINIG my own!!!!!!!!!!! ( I could never really keep up with the jones'....but damn was I trying on a smaller scale....yep)

We are a generation that believes we can have and SHOULD have WHAT we want WHEN we want it...and our children are going to be even worse...we are making them spoiled brats!!!!!!!
I love my kids~ But I believe I have just paved the road for them to be "needy" and "always wanting" of things......
I alway said "I'm trying to raise independant children...NOT dependant children"...when in fact, by giving them the things they want vs. the things they truly need, I have indeed raised dependant kids~
and society doesn't help it either....CREDIT CARD COMPANIES DON'T HELP EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

Both of my kids had jobs starting at the age of 16 ....they WANTED jobs at that age, but they blow their money~ I always thought because my mom wouldn't LET me blow my babysitting money, working money, that it was the reason why I am such a spendthrift today~ so I let me kids spend their money how they wanted......but it has not taught them anything....neither of them can save a dime if it was to spare their lives.......
SO what is the correct way to do it???????

Our daughter is all up on our BK...we have told her a lot, and SHOWED her a lot in hopes that she won't do the same things we have done....BUT we also did that to our son several years ago....and he is in financial trouble himself!!!!!!!
So~ WHAT is the correct way to raise children in the financial realm??? It's beyond me~ but I for one...will now STOP blaming myself that my kids have missed out~ I tried and tried to do it up for them~ and it didn't work~ they need to figure it out for themselves~

INLIMBO~ about your daughter college.....she can get a student loan...it'll be ok!!!! It doesn't mean that you failed her......she can and probably should (now would be a good time for her to learn) learn how to figure a financial plan to repay the loan after she graduates and finds a job!!!
She'll probably thank you for it later on in her life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And she'll be and should be PROUD that she did it for herself!!!!!!!

I think it good to let these kids...our future....figure this stuff out for themselves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sure not helping mine in figuring anything out~ but I think they have to WANT to get it right!!!!!!!!!!!
And guess what....I think deep down inside...they WANT to figure it out for themselves...WE are the ones who want to spare them all of the hurts in life...but guess what??? IT MAKES US A BETTER PERSON IF WE FIGURE STUFF OUT FOR OURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and GET to go through some hardships all by ourselves....!!!!!!!!!!

and JANE!!!!!!!
You're NOT a bad mom for wanting your son to have a decent car...but he probably could help himself buy a car...(might be a junker) but he would probably be really proud of himself that he did it...and he would be proud that you let him do it.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wished now I had made my son buy his own!!!!!!!!!!!!

I WISH I HAD TAKEN MY OWN ADVICE long before this...I would be better off myself and so would my kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I beat myself up for anything else these days~ it will be that I didn't allow my kids to have a few hardships....and to figure out those hardships for themselves.........I truly truly wish I had someone to tell me this before I had to live it the opposite...my kids really don't know how to deal with much, because I have jumped in and made it all better for them......they really need to get a dose of reality....I have all but ruined them~ and paid a dear dear price myself~ some of our debt is for them...and it's gotten us nowhere~
Please don't think that I am blaming them for my debt~ but their wants, and my lack of dicipline have helped to cause me to be where I stand today~

Here's to the hope that you understand we all try to do a good job..but are we really doing the right thing by trying to make a "better generation of people" by giving them what they want when we should step aside and let them make their own responsible way ?
I think I see a lot of things these days in a different light~ and so I guess I needed to go through this BK in order for me to achieve what is really REAL!!!

InLimbo~ and Jane~ I don't doubt for a moment that you both are GREAT parents, and have tried and probably have done a better job than myself at making your kids happy productive people...but I think it's time we ALL stopped blaming ourselves for what our kids have and don't have~ we need to make them do it for themselves.....
Christina

[Spartan]

Let me shed some light on the issue of hardship on the children. Hardship does not damage the children. If anything, it teaches them important lessons early on. And it makes them stronger and tougher, so that they are much better to handle what life throws their way down the road. The best gift you can bestow on the children is not material gift, but rather a tough, strong, unyielding spirit. And you bestow that on them, by showing them how their parents live life courageously and do not yield to hard time. When they look back in time, they will think of you fondly and with deepest love and respect.

I have come to realize that there is no shame in BK. You can't go on in life, if you do not let go of the past. There is no point in wondering what might have been, had you done this instead of that. Don't look back. Look forward. You teach your children by example. You show them how their parents handle tough time and persevere.


EDIT: I see that CAB_44 has beat me to it. My post is a duplicated effort..

[CAB_44]

Yes Spartan~ see you said it better than I did and in a much shorter post!!!!! LOLLOL~
thanks!!

[jane taylor]

CAB and Spartan:

You both said it very well. I need to remind myself of this everyday. Like any other parent, I have made my mistakes, but overall I am a very good mother. My children are very polite and well-mannered (except at home, of course ) and would do anything they could to help someone in need.

We live in a small Southern town where it is all about politics and image. Not all Southerners, but a lot of them are sugary sweet to your face and will rip you to shreds behind your back. I can say this because I am from here! My children are not prejudiced, but we live in a place where prejudice flourishes.

You're right, I HAVE done a good job.

Thanks for the reminder!!

jane

[CAB_44]

CAB and Spartan:

You both said it very well. I need to remind myself of this everyday. Like any other parent, I have made my mistakes, but overall I am a very good mother. My children are very polite and well-mannered (except at home, of course ) and would do anything they could to help someone in need.

We live in a small Southern town where it is all about politics and image. Not all Southerners, but a lot of them are sugary sweet to your face and will rip you to shreds behind your back. I can say this because I am from here! My children are not prejudiced, but we live in a place where prejudice flourishes.

You're right, I HAVE done a good job.

Thanks for the reminder!!

jane

YES YOU HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And hhhhmmmmmmmmm.... are you sure we don't live in the SAME TOWN?????!!!!!! Sounds EXACTLY like where I LIVE~
The sad part about this is that "this is what most of AMERICAN towns are like....filled with those kinds of people......" BUT~ We ALL need to learn how to deal with this issue~ I'm thankful that I FINALLY have, but it has cost me dearly!!! Oh well~ life lesson number 4969 and counting!!!!!!!!!!!
You're a GREAT Mom Jane~ NO DOUBT WHAT SO EVER!!!!!