Payback question

[fslady]

From reading posts on this site and others - Do many/most people have 100% paybacks in Ch. 13? I've come across one place that says most average 13 cents on the dollar but that just sounds lower than most creditors would accept. Of course we'd all like the smallest amount possible but what do most people get?

I'm supposed to meet with the paralegal on Tuesday to turn in the rest of my paperwork, questionnaires, monthly expense estimates, etc.. I'm trying to be realistic and take inflation, etc. into consideration. The attorney did say that I should be able to keep my paid-for timeshare since the value is less than $3,500 - and that the $80/month monthly fee could go under a monthly expense. I hope that works out since the timeshare is only 2 hours from my house, no airfare is involved, and I do enjoy it.

So far the only negative I've encountered with the lawyer's office is a paralegal who is evidently new to that office. I've already signed the agreement that legal fees will come from the trustee payments but everytime I go into the office, the paralegal tells me that nothing can be started until I pay in full and everytime I remind her that the fees will come from the BK payments. I'm really tempted to tell her to read my file before she says that again -BUT I also don't want to tick off anyone who is a position to mess with the files.
Thanks for any advice -

[bowlingmt]

Our payback is about 20%. We had to put $1200 down and the balance of the fee is included in our trustee payment.

[HHM]

The creditors have nothing to do with determining the payback, the great thing about Chapter 13's, is that the creditors are forced to accept whatever the payback plan is.

The person who oversees the payback is the Chapter 13 trustee. He makes sure you are paying ALL your disposable income into the Chapter 13 plan. In the end, a chapter 13 payment is based on what you can afford (the amount of your disposable income). If your disposable income is enough to pay back your creditors 100% of what they are owed, that is what you will pay, if your disposable income can only pay back your unsecured creditors 4% of what they are owed, that is what you will pay.

Granted, there are caveats and other rules regarding how much gets paid back, but your creditors are not in the loop.

[SinkingFast]

Payback is relative depending on what type of debt you owe and how much disposable income you have each month.

I've seen a Ch 13 Plan filed for people who were behind on house and car payments, owed back taxes, had CC and other unsecured debt, and they made less than the Median. Their attny proposed a 3 year plan to catch up their arrears on the house and cars and pay their over due back taxes. Their plan paid 0% to their Unsecureds.

Ch 13 Plans are as unique and individual as each person or couple that files.

[fslady]

Thanks for the responses. I am not paying the 2 big payments this month - 1 to a DMP (VISA and BoA) and another to VISA and I'm really uneasy about it, feels like I'm stealing from them. LOL! I am or was current on the ccs but looks like that is about to change. But I am continuing to pay the other usual utilities, insurance, etc. and the checkbook balance is going down so fast that it convinces me that BK is the right (and only) way to go.

[coma]

We have all unsecured, and we're paying 10,800 on about 76k. That included our attorney fee and the trustee's fee. That's only about 14% of our debt.

[$$only4ever]

We had approximately $90k in unsecured debt in the plan and only paying back $28k which is about 32%. I was pretty happy considering the trustee could have easily doubled the percentage, but did not.

[Grace]

Payback is relative depending on what type of debt you owe and how much disposable income you have each month.

I've seen a Ch 13 Plan filed for people who were behind on house and car payments, owed back taxes, had CC and other unsecured debt, and they made less than the Median. Their attny proposed a 3 year plan to catch up their arrears on the house and cars and pay their over due back taxes. Their plan paid 0% to their Unsecureds.

Ch 13 Plans are as unique and individual as each person or couple that files.

I thought the new BK laws changed this. I could be wrong, SF. You're the expert. I just thought that people had to pay 60 months if they had the disposable income and unsecured debt to be repaid. With the new laws, can a person really file Ch 13 for only 36 months and not pay anything to unsecured creditors?

[HHM]

I thought the new BK laws changed this. I could be wrong, SF. You're the expert. I just thought that people had to pay 60 months if they had the disposable income and unsecured debt to be repaid. With the new laws, can a person really file Ch 13 for only 36 months and not pay anything to unsecured creditors?

Grace: If a person makes less than the median income, they can still do a 36 month plan. But otherwise, you are correct, most debtors in a Chapter 13 must pay for 60 months unless their plan can pay off 100% to their unsecured creditors in less time. The main exception is for those who make less than their states median income, but must still file chapter 13 for whatever reason (usually to catch up arrears of secured debt).

[Grace]

Thanks, HMM. I wasn't aware of the median income requirement.

[cso5@]

How it is working for my case:

Here's my situation:

I am below the state's median income.

$82.9K in unsecured debt, $67.9K of which is student loans.

$8.4K in priority debt -- old income taxes.

$17.6K in secured debt -- car and mortgage arrears.

$2.5K in attorney fees.

$111.4K total debt.

Plan length: 58 months

% to unsecured: 4.97%
% to priority and secured: 100%, of course.

Plan payment: $611 per month.
________________________________________________

Every plan is different. Every situation is different. It is not a cookie cutter kind of process.

[quietsound]

ummm, yes you can have the attorney fees added into the chapter 13 plan HOWEVER............are you sure that she is not talking about the filing fees?

you can't finance those in the plan....you HAVE to pay filing feels and the fee to run the credit reports.......and reports they run for the IRS

it cost me $574 before I could file............that amounts to: filing fee cost to file and admin fees, and the fees to run the various credit reports, and the irs report. it's not cheap to file for bankruptcy! i had to make mine in payments and then once i paid it it was filed. the rest of the "attorney" fees are in the plan.....filing fees...credit report fees, etc is NOT attorney fees.

[cso5@]

Yes, not all attorney fees inside plan

Yes, I had to pay the attorney $1,200 up front to file and stuff like that. His time, preparation of schedules, all that stuff.

The remainder of his fee is in the plan.

I'm pretty sure it was $1,200. Maybe $1,000.

[SinkingFast]

Grace: If a person makes less than the median income, they can still do a 36 month plan. But otherwise, you are correct, most debtors in a Chapter 13 must pay for 60 months unless their plan can pay off 100% to their unsecured creditors in less time. The main exception is for those who make less than their states median income, but must still file chapter 13 for whatever reason (usually to catch up arrears of secured debt).

That was the case with this particular couple. They made less than the Median. Hence the 3 year plan.

In fact, that's what originally caught my attention about them being in a Ch 13. Being below the Median, I wondered why their attny chose to file a Ch 13 and not a Ch 7 so I looked at their case file.

They were in arrears on their mortgage and car payments. They also owed past due property taxes. They also had medical and CC debts too. Their plan proposed to pay back arrears on the house and cars, and pay the past due taxes. 100% to Secureds and Priority debts. There was no provision for any payment to Unsecureds.

My guess is, this couple was desperate to keep their home and cars is why they chose Ch 13 and not a Ch 7.

[IN-DEBT]

payback percentage %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Our % is 24% for 60 months. Just 56 payments left.