Relief From Stay - Ordered (very concerned)

[Monty2000]

It came in the mail today without warning. The hearing was a few days ago and the Motion to Stay was Ordered.
I never got any warning or notices about this. Yes I am late on my Mortgage payment to Wells Fargo, I guess I tested the system and failed. But I would think I should have gotten some warning.
I called Wells Fargo, they told me the details of my late payment, it started 3 months ago, so now I'm a full month behind. They will no longer accept payments.
I currently have no Attorney. The BK is about 18 months old. Trustee payments are up to date.
I just got off the phone with a new Attorney, going to see him in the morning. He's telling me not to be too worried, at least not yet.

I'm really worried though. We have a nice house and dont want to lose it. It just cost too much to live in NJ and afford everything. I'm in a BK Forum, I'm sure you've never heard that before

Anyone know how fast Wells Fargo can move on this? What's going to happen? I'm lost.

Thanks
Monty

[cso5@]

401K Money Available?

How about that? I think you posted awhile ago that you had 401K money you were thinking of borrowing -- I think you can do a "hardship withdrawal" from a 401K if you are facing foreclosure on your primary residence.

The downside is, you are taxed and penalized.

The upside is, you are not foreclosed upon.

I think you have been having this problem for some time now, right, with your mortgage company? Had you been checking PACER to see if there were any changes in your case, any new filings? I still check every day, about a year in, because I am afraid there will be "something" with my case and the whole delicately built house of cards will fall down and -- who knows what will happen?

I had gotten a month behind on my second mortgage one time in my Ch 13 case, probably 4 months ago now. They sent a letter to my lawyer, not me, because they can't contact me anymore. It said, tell your client if she doesn't bring this current immediately, we will file for a relief of stay. So his letter to me said, bring this current, if you can't, we'll have to talk -- words to that effect. So I asked him what would happen if they filed a relief of stay -- he said, I'd have to bring whatever payments I was behind up to date like immediately, and then the hearing would proceed, but the judge would see that either I had made the payments or could (if they were not accepting payments during this hypothetical problem scenario we were running through) and the lifting of the stay would not be granted. But if I didn't make the payments, the stay would be lifted and they would start foreclosure proceedings.

He also said that now that I had been put "on notice" from this mortgage holder, if I am behind again, they would probably not send the courtesy letter, they would just go ahead and file the motion.

So I am scared straight, and make those payments every month and keep my receipts and my proof of mailing and all that. Other stuff, if I have to -- I will let the utility bill go a month. The water bill, the phone bill, stuff like that. But the mortgages are always paid, and thankfully I have always been able to eek out the payments to them.

Please let us know how you make out, Monty -- we are hoping for the best for you.

cat

[Monty2000]

You remember well. Yes I do have 401k money available. It's been on my mind all night.
I did have a problem a few months back, which is when I found this forum. It was not with my mortgage company (Wells Fargo) but with the 2nd mortgage (PNC Bank). I got out of that problem before the Hearing Date. And yes, I was put on warning at that point, with PNC not WF. Not sure how that works.

I dont know about PACER. Is that where you can view the info from your Trustee. I have seen that, I will go try and view it again.
Give me more info on PACER.

Thanks for the help.
Monty

[Monty2000]

Pacer

I got registered with Pacer. Followed the instructions here on how to check my BK, and I dont see anything new. Not sure if I'm looking at it right.

Nevermind, I read the info here again, and got in correctly this time. Printed out some stuff from my history and status.

[HHM]

On a more practical side...at some point, we all have to face facts...the simple fact, as you said, is you CANNOT afford the house. At some point, you MUST balance your income and expenses. Most people get into debt and head into BK because they were "unwilling" to balance their cash flow, thus they subsidized a lifestyle they could not afford with credit.

I understand you don't want to lose your house, no one does, but if you can't afford it, you CANT afford it. At some point is, the plain fact has to smack you in the face, you either increase income or decrease expenses (or both) so that you have at least as much coming in as you have coming out.

The other psychological barrier is the belief that a home is an ASSET. Assets, in the truest sense, make you money. A home (w/ a mortgage) is just a huge liability, and with the current state of the real estate market, even more so since most people who bought a house in the last 3-4 years, are practically upside down. Thus, you need to realize that there may be no value worth saving in that house.

[SinkingFast]

Valuable words of wisdom there from HHM.

We spent years in a house that was literally eating us alive. 13 years and 2 refi's later, we had our home ripped from us. Hubby lost his job and we HAD to move for new employment. Best thing that ever coulda happened.

Houses can be a drain and you don't even realize it. You make the monthly mortgage payments, but where does the money come from for other things??!!

The furnace/heat pump/AC goes out, how do you pay to fix it?? The kids need braces, how do you pay the Dentist?? The car needs a big $$$ fix, where's that money come from??

If the answer is Credit, then you need to rethink your situation. The house is bleeding you dry.

We are much happier now as renters. If something goes wrong with the place, we call the Landlord. Our fixed monthly expense does not change.

[BassBoy]

We are much happier now as renters. If something goes wrong with the place, we call the Landlord. Our fixed monthly expense does not change.

Isn't that the truth SF. I got a real awakening when I saw that my budget hasn't changed in the last year. Other than a few medical office visits here and there, the amount going out is usually the same.

[gunsmoke]

There were two things during my ch 13 comf. hearing that the judge stressed, 1. Pay your monthly mortgage. 2 Pay your trustee. IF you have to go without food, gas, electricity, phone or anything else, PAY YOUR MORTGAGE AND YOUR TRUSTEE FIRST. and if you can't, notify your attorney so you won't have bigger problems.

[happycarl]

I don't get this one.

We are in a downside housing market, sales are down, foreclosures are at an all time high.

Prices in the housing market are declining.

For a mortgage company to be able to foreclose on somebody in Bankruptcy, they have to go through a legal proceeding.

I guess we have been lucky with our two bankruptcy proceedings.

We both supposedly had creditors that would object at the drop of a hate, they didn't and one we owed around $28,000.00 to on one Master Card, another one $10,000.00 on two AMEX accounts and not a word.

We have a mortgage with Citi and are regularly late with our payment, never a word from the attorney, not a phone call, letter or anything.

[quietsound]

could you imagine him saying such a thing? Go without food, electricity, heat, etc etc and pay the trustee...............I wonder, I just wonder if he would go without electricity and food if he was in bankrutpcy? So, don't eat and freeze yourself to death........I guess you can save water since you won't be going to the bathroom due to lack of food you won't need to flush the toilet and then you can save those pennies in a cheaper water bill that you can give to the trustee.........hmmmm the whole thing is NUTS

[aa06a47]

I would be careful about a loan from the 401k while in a chapter 13. One, you are on a set monthly payment plan to the trustee, set payment to your house, and if your having problems now making the house payment, you certainly would have more problems if you throw a 401k loan on top of it.

I do agree that a house is a liability at least until it is paid off and we all need to live somewhere. While your chapter 13 is suppose to be all disposible income, we all know that sometimes the trustee takes a bigger bite than he/she should. Unless you have had a drop in income, with all things being equal, the house payment should not be the problem.

I splurge from time to time and while I never have went without a meal, I have had to eat very "cheap" for several days until pay day. Sometimes it was for an emergency, sometimes it has been for a special occassion.

Anyway, take a look at all expenses, not just your house payment, and see if you can plug a few holes and make it work out. Gook luck.

[Monty2000]

Looks like I've dodged another Bullet. Thanks everyone for the slap in the face on reality, but everyone has a different story. I'll explain mine very quickly here.

I live in small town, very desireable neighborhood. I owe about 125k on my mortgage with about 15 years left to pay. My house is valued at about 600k. Sure I could sell it and get out of everything, but then what. I have 3 kids in this nice town in school. I have a good job of 21 years, but as we came through the 90's my pay was not that great. Living in NJ with 3 kids on a not so great income is tough, and we started to get behind. Things are Much better now, but we are still on the edge. Even after BK we are struggling but are 18 months into it, and there is a light and the end of the tunnel. Kids get more expensive as they get older, that's the problem. We do need to learn to say No.
So, I would say my house is definitly an Asset that I will do everything to keep.
Back to me Dodging the Bullet. I talked to a couple of lawyers, both sounded good, and I was ready to go see one of them on Tuesday. While I was talking to one of them, Wells Fargo's Attorney called me. Took a while, got transfered to differnet people, but finally got the right person. She made it very easy for me. I have paid the two back payments we owed and will be making Aprils payment on time. Of course their attorney fees will be added to my BK, but I can live with that.

The problem is never solved completely, but for now I'm off the hook. I did finally get into PACER correctly and printed out a bunch of stuff. I can now check it regularly.

I really appreciate everyone's help here. It's good to see the same names come up to help everytime I get into trouble. I do see better times ahead for all of us.

Thanks
Monty

[cso5@]

So glad!

Monty, I am so happy for you -- I am glad it worked out.

I hear what you are saying about kids getting more expensive as they get older....mine are 15 and 17, and they know all about our financial situation. So they know when I say, it's not possible....it's not possible!

I think the 401K thing would be a hardship withdrawal, not a loan, to clear up a comment someone else said about a loan. If you are facing foreclosure, you can take a hardship withdrawal to pay what you need to stop the foreclosure.

Yes -- bummer, but all of in 13's know that no matter what -- pay the trustee, pay the mortgage. My own lawyer said the same thing. Otherwise, it's either a dismissed case or a relief of stay filing. Hmmm, we eat boxed macarori and cheese and lower the heat and have no long distance phone service and pay the mortgage some months....it's just the nature of it.

I have to believe things will get better as we go along. I read of other people's discharges and it keeps me going.

Happy day!

Cat