Sorry for the lengthy post but I found out a lot of information today that I thought might help other new filers with the new law. We met with the lawyer today that my husband chose of the three he visited previously. It was very reassuring! For anyone from CA, unless you are from Oakland, it was good news that our state is not challenging too much of the new law yet.
For anyone else new to this forum and bk, I learned a lot more from the lawyer today. I've been researching like crazy both through books and online, but still didn't understand so much! One thing he clarified is, as many people on this forum have mentioned, it depends on your district (and sometimes even within your district) how your specific case will be handled because judges are still interpreting the law. He said that colleagues of his across the country have widely different experiences with similar types of cases, which explains why so many of us on this forum have questions that no one knows the answers to.
He started out walking us through the means test, even tho we knew we would be filing Ch 13, but he had to prove that first. He carefully listed every possible allowable expense (IRS standards), then he worked on our budget with us, checking (and having us check) that he included the same expenses and amounts as on the means test form, plus some others that aren't allowed but *are* our real expenses - like the drycleaning my hubby has done for work shirts (not uniforms) and auto expenses (listed under transportation) even tho we own our three vehicles, all earlier than 2002. (apparently in some states judges decide you can't get auto expenses unless you have car loans) He adjusted expense amounts to fit in with the payment amount he felt we could work with and that was reasonable.
He said we have a good trustee, who doesn't care about income increases or tax refunds unless it's a large refund (he said $2000 would be high), and that under the new law, at this point (this is something that some states and districts are challenging), we could payoff early in CA if any creditors do not make a claim on their amounts, since our payoff is based on the total amount owed. Basically they figure a percentage that everyone gets based on the total listed when we file (we have no priority claims) and all creditors filing claims get that percentage of their total (barring objections, of course) so if someone doesn't file a claim (might be using wrong terminology here, but hopefully you get the idea) we would be paid off sooner. Hope that makes sense - that was something that was confusing to me before we talked to him today.
He also said that high income filers, like us ($130K last year in gross income last year; 122K in unsecured cc debt and student loans) are more likely to have their cases scrutinized, even in our district, which he said has so far interpreted the new law pretty fairly. The vast majority of filers, he said, are below the median income. He wasn't judgmental, was great at finding ways to make our budget work and explained things well. College expenses aren't allowed, but he listed some of them under "other expenses" including the fact that it's also room and board, which we would pay if the college student were at home. Basically he said as long as we can document our expenses in our budget, we should be fine.
During this process he called the trustee supervisor three times with questions for clarifications about our case since we had some unique items! I definitely agree to check out lawyers until you find one that will work well for you, it sounds like we got a really good one - and he wasn't the most expensive one upfront!
We're waiting to file until June 1st for that 6 month income average, but things are looking much more hopeful! Thanks to everyone for replying to my earlier questions and for your own questions that I've been reading during this process.
Now we just wait another week+ to file and for the 341....
For anyone else new to this forum and bk, I learned a lot more from the lawyer today. I've been researching like crazy both through books and online, but still didn't understand so much! One thing he clarified is, as many people on this forum have mentioned, it depends on your district (and sometimes even within your district) how your specific case will be handled because judges are still interpreting the law. He said that colleagues of his across the country have widely different experiences with similar types of cases, which explains why so many of us on this forum have questions that no one knows the answers to.
He started out walking us through the means test, even tho we knew we would be filing Ch 13, but he had to prove that first. He carefully listed every possible allowable expense (IRS standards), then he worked on our budget with us, checking (and having us check) that he included the same expenses and amounts as on the means test form, plus some others that aren't allowed but *are* our real expenses - like the drycleaning my hubby has done for work shirts (not uniforms) and auto expenses (listed under transportation) even tho we own our three vehicles, all earlier than 2002. (apparently in some states judges decide you can't get auto expenses unless you have car loans) He adjusted expense amounts to fit in with the payment amount he felt we could work with and that was reasonable.
He said we have a good trustee, who doesn't care about income increases or tax refunds unless it's a large refund (he said $2000 would be high), and that under the new law, at this point (this is something that some states and districts are challenging), we could payoff early in CA if any creditors do not make a claim on their amounts, since our payoff is based on the total amount owed. Basically they figure a percentage that everyone gets based on the total listed when we file (we have no priority claims) and all creditors filing claims get that percentage of their total (barring objections, of course) so if someone doesn't file a claim (might be using wrong terminology here, but hopefully you get the idea) we would be paid off sooner. Hope that makes sense - that was something that was confusing to me before we talked to him today.
He also said that high income filers, like us ($130K last year in gross income last year; 122K in unsecured cc debt and student loans) are more likely to have their cases scrutinized, even in our district, which he said has so far interpreted the new law pretty fairly. The vast majority of filers, he said, are below the median income. He wasn't judgmental, was great at finding ways to make our budget work and explained things well. College expenses aren't allowed, but he listed some of them under "other expenses" including the fact that it's also room and board, which we would pay if the college student were at home. Basically he said as long as we can document our expenses in our budget, we should be fine.
During this process he called the trustee supervisor three times with questions for clarifications about our case since we had some unique items! I definitely agree to check out lawyers until you find one that will work well for you, it sounds like we got a really good one - and he wasn't the most expensive one upfront!
We're waiting to file until June 1st for that 6 month income average, but things are looking much more hopeful! Thanks to everyone for replying to my earlier questions and for your own questions that I've been reading during this process.
Now we just wait another week+ to file and for the 341....
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