Trustee won't confirm. Court Tommorrow

[dovette7]

After back and forth, trustee cutting budget, he won't confirm. Wants judge to decide. Court tommorrow. Need your prayers!

[CA3kids]

Good luck Dovette! I'll be thinking about you.

CA3kids

[biotechsolution]

Judge can confirm with 0% going to unsecured.

Dovette7. In most jurisdictions judges have the authority to confirm
a plan even if 0% is paid back to unsecured. If you are making an honest
effort and if can tell the judge that you even cut out your 401K payments
to fund the plan I have a feeling he will confirm it. You might have been
better off going to the judge first if the trustee is looking at a lot going to
paying unsecured.

[dovette7]

Thanks. Needed that positive feedback. The attorney has me really concerned about the judge. The issue I think, with trustee is that the means test shows I should pay $1823 to unsecureds then add $1126 for secureds and priority for a total of $2949. After revising budget, our total proposed payment is $1929 that would give unsecureds $803 a month = 35%. But because we are over median, trustee says he cannot confirm plan if total going to unsecureds is less than $1823 a month.

So we are off $1020 a month. We can't pay that additionally. That would leave us with $858 less than even our means test shows is basic expenses. The problem is that I had income prior to filing, haven't worked since last November. I'm going to talk with my attorney, to see if things arent' going well.... we could propose a step-up plan for the additional money added to payment in 4-5 months. I should be ok to work at something not manuel labor by then. Is that something that sounds reasonable? or is that stupid?

I'm trying to think (possibly overthinking) of everything here because we need this confirmed not dismissed.

[SinkingFast]

Personally, I wouldn't offer anything that's gonna be put in writing to increase future payments. You never know what's gonna happen to prevent you from going back to work. Or maybe you won't get a job paying enough Net to meet the increase. Or,.... Or,.... Or,.....

Just wait and see what the Judge has to say tomorrow. Work from there. Maybe even prepare for a few scenarios tonight, just in case you need to respond on the spot.

Good Luck!!

And let us know how it goes!!

[dovette7]

Your right I don't know what might happen. I'm way emotionally involved in this and need to take a breath and just see. One thing I'm learning, or should be, is patience. My husband is getting upset with me because I need to just relax. Attorney told me to call her at 7:30 to talk about court in the morning..... she has to call me back because she just got off phone with trustee again and all she said is " I'll have to call you back because now trustee wants.... I just need to call you back"

So we'll see what's next. thanks again for you guys positive support. I really don't know what I would do if this avenue to talk, vent, etc wasn't here!

[dovette7]

Case has been reset for July. Trustee cannot confirm plan because means test numbers and sched j disposable income are too far apart. A judge will have to decide. They reset for the last day unsecured creditors could file claims so they will know the "exact" numbers we have to work with. If less claims are filed than we project and the payment for them would be less than means tests shows I have to pay, then the difference between means test and sched j would be less.

My question was what difference does it make how many claims because I thought payment was based on disposable income. But trustee wants to see how far apart they are.

Trustee had argued that my medical condition was not permanent, and temporary and I would be able to work, so previous 6 month income shouldn't be an issue. Attorney argued that nothing is ever permanent. That it is not that I won't work at all for the next 5 years, but at this time, I have not been able to. We can always amend plan for future earnings but at this time...this is realty. He seemed to agree. But he will not confirm plan, thinks that Judge would be favorable. But again who knows?


So I'm waiting again for another month. But I feel this is good news. It's definatly not bad news.

I asked attorney, and I would like your imput:
What If I could find a job with no manual labor, etc...that I was able to physically do, to be able to pay what the means test says I should (which is 81% to unsecureds) or even paying 100%... should I try and do that or just wait until court?

I would love to be able to pay this 100%. I just have to be really careful with what I do every day b/c of the back issue. I am healing well, but not completley. But the thought of paying everything back would be great. Attorney said even if we are in 5 year plan at 100%, we do not have to amend with additional income. so husband could get a raise and we could keep. That is only at 100%. Maybe I'm dreaming b/c I don't know that I could even do this, but it's on my mind.

Thanks again for your support and prayers guys.

[jojo446]

What medical background does this trustee have that he can determine that your medical condition is temporary? Are they also trained in the medical profession and can claim they are experts in the field? I'm sorry, I had to comment when I read his opinion on your condition. I wish you luck.

[workinghard]

Hi Dovette,

I'm keeping you in my prayers today!

I know what you are going thru it's like what in the world is the trustee thinking? And the lawyers seem useless nowadays...i've been having issues too.

Hang in there

[arkienurse]

Trustee had argued that my medical condition was not permanent, and temporary and I would be able to work, so previous 6 month income shouldn't be an issue. Attorney argued that nothing is ever permanent. That it is not that I won't work at all for the next 5 years, but at this time, I have not been able to.
.................

I asked attorney, and I would like your imput:
What If I could find a job with no manual labor, etc...that I was able to physically do, to be able to pay what the means test says I should (which is 81% to unsecureds) or even paying 100%... should I try and do that or just wait until court?

I agree with jojo, how can the trustee determine that your injury is not permanent. If I rember right, it is a back injury, right? Well, my SIL had surgery for her back about 3 years ago. The surgery has come undone, and she is having to sell off her business, which is her family's only means of support. What if the trustee guilts you into getting a job and comitting your wages to the plan, and this unfortunate event should happen to you? Once again you would be unable to work and would fall behind and be back where you are now.

I say go to court without the offer of finding a non strenous job and see what the judge has to say, and then go from there.

[SinkingFast]

I dealt with a herniated disk for years. There was no rhyme or reason to what would cause a flare up. Eventually, one morning, while getting up out of a chair, I felt a white (as in saw white flashes in my eyes), hot, flash of pain and heard,........ HEARD a cracking sound.

I thought, "Welp! That's gonna hurt for a few days." Turns out it still hurts. Sorta.

My disk ruptured. Free fragments spilled out pinning the major nerve bundle of my left leg against the vertebra. The cracking sound I heard was a piece of my vertebra bone breaking off and being pushed into the lining of my spinal cord.

The pain was so bad, I begged Hubby to take me down to the barn and cut off my leg. I was hospitalized for pain control because oral meds weren't strong enough. Back surgery followed.

My Ortho cleaned up the disk and surgically repaired the spinal cord lining. Oh My! How spinal headaches do hurt!! Like someone is driving a knife right down thru the top of your head.

It's been 10 years and I still have permanent nerve damage in my left leg.

A herniated disk is a disk with a weakened side wall. Something will aggravate the area causing the disk material to swell, balloon out, and press on the surrounding nerves.

You may live for years or the rest of your life with the disk in tact. Or something may happen causing the disk to rupture. You can't say what will or won't happen. And neither can the Trustee.

[DeadManCrawling]

I have the same problem, herniated disc with nerve pressure.

There is a new surgery available that is nowhere near as frightening as the previous surgeries.

They use a low power laser and a needle with cameras to burn away the areas of the disc that are protruding against the nerves.

It has a very high success rate and is done on an outpatient basis, with a recovery time of a few weeks. It is minimally invasive and you are never put under full anasthesia for the procedure.

In fact, from what I have read, most people feel immediate relief and resume regular activity within a few days. There is no hospitalization and you are essentially "functional" immediately following the procedure.

I am looking into it, and will probably go ahead with it. The pain has become unbearable, even with meds.

A couple issues though: If you have had a lot of the epidural shots into your spine, you may not be able to do this one. The shots soften the vertebrae, making it difficult to run a laser. If you have had a previous surgery using one of the other methods, it's unlikely they could use this on you.

I am calling a doctor later today, to set up an appointment.

One note, though. This surgery will be "Out of network" for most insurance companies. It was only approved by government a few years ago. I suppose they regard it as experimental or something, still.

It also costs about 12-16k for the lasers versus the 50-60k+ for the other one. That's what got my attention. As a self employed person, I will be paying a higher than typical percentage. To save money, we have a $7500 deductible for these kinds of things.

best wishes,

-dmc

[$$only4ever]

Dovette,

I am so sorry that this has been so drawn out and stressful for you. Please know that all of us are hoping that everything turns out okay for you and we are all here for you.

[workinghard]

Our case is going to the judge later this month. Trustee made motion to dismiss. It's been crazy but actually i'm a little less stressed about it now. I'm adapting a "back to the drawing board" attitude.