Still confused on why I can't file a ch 7?

[leftyf]

I'm about $2,405 above the median income for 6 months, or about $5,000 annually. Whenever I run the online means test that is referenced often in this forum, I'm anywhere from $400 - $1,200 underwater. In other words, I would qualify for a 7, I think.
With this said, both attorneys I have had introductory meetings with have said I will be going 13. I'm in the state of OH...maybe that is why it is so clear? Maybe it's just because they don't know the whole story yet...for example, my spouse does not work, but we have the 2 little kids in daycare which equates to about $1,600/month of expense. Perhaps they are assuming since the spouse doesn't have an income that she must stay home with the kids, when actually she is a part-time student who studies a lot (no kidding, not just saying that.) In my means test, I used actual expenses without cushion. I just realized I forgot to put in my cell phone, unless that is part of the utilities? Anyways, mostly venting. Any insights appreciated...just commenting on the same subject again.

Maybe someone out there knows why the attorneys would jump to this conclusion without looking at all the facts first? They seem confident though, so there must be something key I'm missing. My income is above the median, but is $5K/year so grossly over the median that an attorney could tell me I'll be going ch 13 after 5 minutes of discussion? Not in my world.
Thanks for the help.
Leftyf

[CityGirl]

Maybe the $1600 a month is over the allowance?

[keepmine]

Maybe it's just because they don't know the whole story yet...for example, my spouse does not work

Why don't you tell them the whole story? It's hard for a lawyer to represent you to the best of their ability if they don't have all of the facts.

[leftyf]

My wife was with me at the meetings and the two attorneys know she does not work. I have not actually retained a lawyer yet...I was just looking for any opinions on lawyers that push you into the 13. Is this a common tactic? Or will many attorneys really help you get to the 7 if it is feasible? You're right though. Until we lay out the numbers, they can't really know.

[HHM]

I'm about $2,405 above the median income for 6 months, or about $5,000 annually.

Maybe it's just because they don't know the whole story yet

Those statements pretty much sums up the response you have been getting from attorney's. You have to realize, if you are over the median income, the burden falls on the debtor to overcome the presumption of abuse. It can be done, but there are too many factors that vary by district for us on this forum to be of any real help. All you can do is visit more attorney's.

If you don't share all the facts with your the attorney's you visit, you are not going to their "full" opinion.

[Minnymouth]

You spend $400 a week for a daycare so your wife can study (parttime student) at home?

I'm sure that the attorneys are looking at this the same as the Trustee would look at it........ disposable income!! Chapter 13....

Were these expenses explained to the attorney's you talked too....

As with any bankruptcy - if your over the median on income - the trustee is going to say Chapter 13..... you have disposable income...

Check with several attorney's, tell them everything involved and see what they say - but I don't think its going to change much, you may still end up in Chapter 13 since you will have at least $800-900 in disposable income...

Keep us posted.

[CityGirl]

yup! 5k is alot!

I'm about $2,405 above the median income for 6 months, or about $5,000 annually. Whenever I run the online means test that is referenced often in this forum, I'm anywhere from $400 - $1,200 underwater. In other words, I would qualify for a 7, I think.
With this said, both attorneys I have had introductory meetings with have said I will be going 13. I'm in the state of OH...maybe that is why it is so clear? Maybe it's just because they don't know the whole story yet...for example, my spouse does not work, but we have the 2 little kids in daycare which equates to about $1,600/month of expense. Perhaps they are assuming since the spouse doesn't have an income that she must stay home with the kids, when actually she is a part-time student who studies a lot (no kidding, not just saying that.) In my means test, I used actual expenses without cushion. I just realized I forgot to put in my cell phone, unless that is part of the utilities? Anyways, mostly venting. Any insights appreciated...just commenting on the same subject again.

Maybe someone out there knows why the attorneys would jump to this conclusion without looking at all the facts first? They seem confident though, so there must be something key I'm missing. My income is above the median, but is $5K/year so grossly over the median that an attorney could tell me I'll be going ch 13 after 5 minutes of discussion? Not in my world.
Thanks for the help.
Leftyf

[leftyf]

Ok, let's say $5K is a lot over the median. If I can take a $6K pay cut, do I walk away with a 7? The line in the sand doesn't quite feel right...if I walked in to the attorney and told him I made $1K under the median, would he/she immediately jump to the conclusion that I could file a 7? Just curious...I guess I will find out for myself. Interested in what others have seen on this. I'd be a lot better off taking the pay cut, from what I can tell. A lot.
Still having a tough time trying to figure out why I would want anything to do with a 13...as an added bonus, they will have to tell my employer so my wages can be garnished. Wow, sounds nice!
Leftyf

[CityGirl]

First of all, not all states require you to have the money taken from your paycheck. Most trustees take money order or bank check and never tell your employer.
Yes, if you were 1K under the median, you would automatically qualify for a chapter 7.
If you have disposable income, you're required to pay your creditors with it. You owe them, why wouldn't you pay them back?
I'm doing a 13, because I'm about 13K over the median but with the expenses that my state allow ( and I'm just taking the minimum ) , I only have to pay out $300 a month in addition to my car payment of $500 added into the plan.
I'm paying $1900 right now including my car so this is $1100 a month to me that I can actually "live" with.
You can't take a pay cut and then file 7. You have to have that steady pay cut showing for 6 months. They take the last 6 months of your income for the means test.

[BurgerKingVII]

I have not actually retained a lawyer yet...I was just looking for any opinions on lawyers that push you into the 13. Is this a common tactic? Or will many attorneys really help you get to the 7 if it is feasible?

There are, unfortunately, some unethical lawyers who will try to push clients into BK13 because attorney fees for a BK13 are typically higher than those for a BK7.

However, without knowing the details of your situation, I can't say whether this why you're being encouraged to file BK13. As other posters have suggested, it may be that your expenses would be challenged as unreasonable by the U.S. Trustee in an attempt to get your disposable income in the black and force you into BK13. Before you meet with another lawyer, you might want to fill out a B22 means test form to show him/her why you believe you qualify for BK7.

[freshstart06]

leftyf, They are going to look at the fact your wife is not working and you pay $400 in daycare. I was told that because my husband's income is a little over the median. If you go to church and give offering you can give up to $200-$400. The means test have set limits on how much you can spend on expenses even if it is unrealistic. For example, here in Arizona we are only allowed $1195 for rent, our rent is $1300. If you pass the means test with the standard allowed then you are fine. If you don't mind maybe you can list your expenses with your income and then we can help you out.

[CityGirl]

My attorney HATES doing 13's. He'd much rather do 7's, MUCH LESS WORK.

[slickwilly95991]

My attorney HATES doing 13's. He'd much rather do 7's, MUCH LESS WORK.

And you usually get paid up front. Chapter 13's it takes the attorney months to even see a first payment. And it might take a year to be paid off totally depending on your plan. I would say it is the same amount of work, just getting it up front and done with is one of the benefits of a 7.

[CityGirl]

And you usually get paid up front. Chapter 13's it takes the attorney months to even see a first payment. And it might take a year to be paid off totally depending on your plan. I would say it is the same amount of work, just getting it up front and done with is one of the benefits of a 7.

Not true. He gets $800 for either up front. In the 13, he'll get even more through payments.

[slickwilly95991]

Not true. He gets $800 for either up front. In the 13, he'll get even more through payments.

The attorneys here do not seem to work that way.