newbie...desperate

[jgarton244]

Your attorney should list your debt with your family member. By law ALL debt must be declared, and your attorney is not following the law correctly if they do not include this protion. I would ask his paralegal and your attorney to put in writing that they taake full responsibility for any reprecussions that may occur if they do not list this debt. Listing your family members debt should not increase your monthly payment, just reduce the percentage paid to each creditor. If, as you state you would finish early without this debt, it may prolong your payments. But, you will have payments that would go to your family members debt. When we filed, we had borrowed from a family member. We had drew up loan payments, and signed a loan payment schedule, with records kept each month/ If I missed a payment, I added interest to the balance. The trustee allowed this loan to be part of our unsecured debt, and it was paid through the BK 13 plan. We had income of $135k, with debt of $90k, plus mortgage. We paid $2250 per month, plus $1100 on mortgage for 48 months. Finished plan in Jan 06, closed in June 06. Our attorney was good, but I had to show up at his office a couple of times, unannounced to get his full attention. Push your attorney. You are the customer, and you should get the time needed to answer all your questions to your satisfaction.

Good luck.

[rrockinggramma]

Letting go of your house sometimes is the best way to go. I would convert to a chapter 7 if you qualify and let the house go. However the family member loan could be a thorn in your side (insider and preferential) so you might have to stay in a chapter 13 because of that. I would camp out at the attorney's office to get your information and sign up for a Pacer account so you can keep track of your case.

[notsoHappyMomma]

sorry I haven't been in touch...been nuts around here.

Still no word from teh attorney. I am so mad. I refuse to continue with this person.

We have not gone to court at all...as a matter of fact, haven't heard from the attorney on the date we are supposed to go..so, I assume that is a 341? If so, no, we haven't done that. All we have done is have a consult and sign papers to get things going.

As far as the debt from family, I would think it is secured. My hubby has a rather large payout due from business stock in 5 years...and we secured our loan with the family (distant family) with that??? Does that sound like it would be secured to you? And we are paying it back over 5 years. We are almost 2 years into payment.

Actually, most of our loans are secured. We were stupid...and thinking we were doing something smart, we took out a 2nd mortgage to pay off most of our Credit Cards...I know, I know...stupid. We thought we were doing right at the time! We thought we'd be able to make it, and hang on until the 5 year mark when the payout is due. I wish I could go back and change some of the decisions we made...oh, I do!

The only things we have unsecured are medical bills...which we have a lot of....a whole lot, and one credit card with a 13,000 balance. The rest of it is our first mortgage, which we still owe 175,000 on, a second mortgage at 33,000, and some taxes and about 1000 in a student loan. There are other things mixed into the pot, but that is the bulk.

That is why sometimes I think letting the house go is the best route to take...since so much is secured with the dang house!! What are ya'lls thought on this??? Not that giving up the house would make things *poof!* go away....

[AngelinaCatHub]

*UPDATE*

Our attorney didn't return our call, answer the email from Friday or today, and was out to lunch when we went to the office at 10:30. I had our list of questions, and the not so nice lady at the front said we had to send them via email. I just thanked her....I had already done that before we left. I know none of you know me from Adam (or Eve...), but I assure you neither me nor my hubby are annoying or pushy people. We respect that our attorney and paralegal are very busy people...but you know what? We are too! Hubby works full time, part owner in a business and I am the circus ring-leader to my troop of 5 kiddos. If we can respect that they are busy, why can they not respect that we are as well, and that we need the advice ASAP? It would literally take five minutes....

I am so bummed. We are so screwed. I am just tired.

[CH33 Paralegal]

you should be able to amend that debt in without having to wait for your hearing...not sure if you mean 341 or confirmation, but from what you said about just filing, I'd assume it's the 341. there should be no problem in amending. One thing about your debt though, is that it would probably be an unsecured debt and therefore would first of all be paid at your unsecured percentage, and second, be paid for towards the end of the plan. The relative wouldn't really see the money until a few years into the case, and would only get the percentage that the credit cards, medical debts, etc.. are getting. there is a sequence as to what debts get paid when, and general unsecureds are basically the last dogs to eat.

One MAJOR thing about a voluntary dismissal is that it prevents you from filing any other type of BK for 180 days. If the courts dismiss your case, that's one thing and you can turn right around and file again, but if YOU dismiss your case, you won't be able to turn right around.

You may want to at least see if another firm would want to take your case. You definitely seem to have a lot of stuff and your trustee payment is quite high. I've definitely done intakes with higher trustee payments....like 5200/mo....however the courts basically forced a conversion to an 11 on that one. You certainly wouldn't run a risk of that, but a firm more set up for a better hands on approach may be a good idea.

[MajorMike]

Can you tell us how they came up with $3600??? Also how long do you have to pay the relative?

[Tromploi]

It really is too bad they are treating you this way. I called my atty's office today with questions about my packet, the gal answered the phone, answered all of my questions and faxed over the business page I needed within 5 minutes. I asked them if there are additional atty's fees when there are objections at the 341 meeting that need to be dealt with and she said "we won't have any objections, we work very hard and go to court prepared and never have any". Well, one can hope.

As someone here said, we are essentially employing them, they should respect that relationship. But in your case he sounds as though he knows you're in a bind. Just wanted to say I'm really sorry for you. This is a hard enough process WITH questions answered.

[notsoHappyMomma]

*UPDATE*

Our attorney didn't return our call, answer the email from Friday or today, and was out to lunch when we went to the office at 10:30. I had our list of questions, and the not so nice lady at the front said we had to send them via email. I just thanked her....I had already done that before we left. I know none of you know me from Adam (or Eve...), but I assure you neither me nor my hubby are annoying or pushy people. We respect that our attorney and paralegal are very busy people...but you know what? We are too! Hubby works full time, part owner in a business and I am the circus ring-leader to my troop of 5 kiddos. If we can respect that they are busy, why can they not respect that we are as well, and that we need the advice ASAP? It would literally take five minutes....

I am so bummed. We are so screwed. I am just tired.

[Frogge]

I have had the same problem wanting answers from my attorney and getting frustrated by lack of response. This forum has been great for interim answers on several things.

I do know that once the ball was rolling on getting my old home taken care of (deed-in-lieu letters sent to lenders, etc) I started 2nd guessing the direction we were going, i.e: should we file BK first? Is this going to work? What if it doesn't? etc etc... researching, looking at so many variables that my head was spinning. Now I realize my attorney is very experienced, has all my financial information, and I need to trust the course of action (besides, the letters are sent, the mortgage payments are already 48 days late). Don't get me wrong, I still research and have a pre-plan course, but these are basics that are common sense (stop using CC's, don't pay insiders or CC's big $$, stash some cash, etc)

ITA that you should get a clear set of questions and approach your current attorney's office with them tomorrow and not make yourself crazy over the possibilities. Good luck!

[Flamingo]

Part of the problem here is that you are being bombarded with information from all sides and you are reading yourself into oblivion on everything which makes things much more stressful. Realize your plan is specific to your family only. Everyone on here filed a different Chapter 13 plan than you, in a different state and had a different trustee and attorney. They do not make Chapter 13 cookie cutters where the cookies (Plans) are lined up all in a row all the same. Some of the things that occur as to finances in a Plan shock you and you wonder how they came up with that; you are still shellshocked from even getting to the point of filing and then an entire Plan with all involved hits you.

First, as Gramma states above, you have already filed. Your best interest is to try to work with this attorney because to refile under another attorney will bring more costs and another attorney will not touch you if you are represented by another attorney. Seeking a few consultations will help and give you a broader perspective on the entire thing. Secondly, BK attorneys now are swamped withi filings due to the economy with lots of folks going under and in the same boat you are. Plus it's July with lots of folks in businesses out on vacation. I am just trying to give you an idea as to what it could be like in a legal office at this point (I work in one) and clients in a financial jam want advice immediately (went through a Chapter 13, I know that also!). All attorneys are different and handle things diffrently. Make a listing of your questions and email or hand delivery a copy to your attorney directly or to his assistant/paralegal (more clearer when on paper; keep brief - no emotions) and state due to the timeline involved here as to the upcoming payment, you need legal advice as to what to do from your retained attorney.

I'll bet you get all the answers you need in the next few days. I love what you have listed as to your location in your profile header (It's like that everywhere on the East Coast today!). If you get too frazzled over this, keep a running list of questions and details and check them off as you get answers - it does help...it's a good habit to do with anything that is complex when you have 10,000 daily things going on in your life!

[rrockinggramma]

If you dismiss, you will have 2 bk's on your credit report. One that shows dismissed and one that shows "filed" until discharge. I know that credit score should not be a reason but just to let you know that fact.

You can always voluntarily dismiss your case and start over if you think that is best.

Or you could talk to the other 2 attorney's and get their opinions (they might be reluctant due to a colleague) but worth a shot, then dismiss the one attorney with a motion of the court and hire the new one with an amended plan.

Definitely you should have an attorney you feel comfortable with.

However if you have arrearage for secured debt in your plan, to dismiss and then refile shows "bad faith" to the court and the automatic stay has to be motioned to be extended after 30 days and the judge rules on that (I haven't seen too many ok's here in Michigan) but every district and trustee and judge is different so to fire one attorney and sign up another is probably your best course of action.

Spend this next week talking to those other 2 and see what gives.

[notsoHappyMomma]

Don't dismiss your attorney until you have at least 2 other consultations. It won't be easy to find someone who will jump in, but at least it's very early in the process. And if it saves you money over the 5 years then it will be worth it. Maybe you'll get some satisfaction from your current attny. on Monday!
This is a difficult process; we had 2 1/2 mos. from consultation to filing and had TONS of questions. Good luck to you!

So, if we were to find another attorney, they have to come in from the place we are at now? You don't start the process from scratch with someone new?

Thanks for your advice. I do hope I will have some luck on Monday with our current attorney. I have read on here, made a list of questions, and have a positive attitude. However, I have names and numbers of two others I plan on calling if things do not go well or my current attorney still refuses to talk to me or see me.

[parsoc48]

Don't dismiss your attorney until you have at least 2 other consultations. It won't be easy to find someone who will jump in, but at least it's very early in the process. And if it saves you money over the 5 years then it will be worth it. Maybe you'll get some satisfaction from your current attny. on Monday!
This is a difficult process; we had 2 1/2 mos. from consultation to filing and had TONS of questions. Good luck to you!

[notsoHappyMomma]

After thought and reading on here-for most of the day..lol...and doing some research here in town, I have one question.

Is it possible to call the attorney we are dealing with now and tell him thanks but no thanks. Then, turn right around and speak with two other attorneys, decide which one will work best for us, and start over again from scratch. According to the people I have talked to, the attorney my DH chose is a good one for a simple case...cut and dry BK. For more complicated cases involving higher incomes, future annuities and business buyout stock, and partnership in a business (all of which applies to us) the friend I spoke with, who filed many years ago after a very ugly divorce, suggested two others.

I am more that willing to work with the current attorney if he will actually see me Monday, which they were not willing to do Friday, and work with us. I realize this is not a life or death emergency...I do. But, it is a situation that needs attention in the next few days. My friend said her attorney or paralegal always returned phone calls or emails within a day....especially in the early stages when she had not a clue what was going on. I feel if I am going to be dealing with this person for the next few years, we need to have a good professional relationship. Friday was the first time we have called since our consultation...so I don't feel that is excessive. I realize they probably have clients who call for every little thing...that is not us. I don't want a babysitter or BFF, I simply want someone who will answer an occasional question if needed.

So, if any of you are knowledgable in our options, I would greatly appreciate some input so I can go into Monday with a plan. Yes, I would like to keep the house. Yes, we were in foreclosure when we rushed to file. No, we don't have any extra money at all. We would have been able to swing it...until the car died. We need some time to recover. Life pretty much blows right now....but....

You guys are so right...we are all healthy, and nothing is leaving the planet...lol. We will survive this and we should have never, never rushed. Lesson learned!

[berrymom31]

3600 sounds like a very high figure. My hubby and I together make around 98,000, not that much less than you and we could soooo not afford 3,600. We have three kids to feed and clothe and if you need 7 seatbelts I'm assuming that you do to! Is your house payment being payed inside the plan? If so, then that would make more sense. I'm sure if you sat down with your atty and went over all the numbers the payment would drop. Did you go over every penny you spend, sports enrollment, monthly dues to dance and etc.....even entertainment is allowed within reason. You need to demand that you see where your money is going!

I have been so stressed that I gave myself the shingles a few months ago.....I know how you feel. When it rains it pours..you have to keep your life in perspective though...when I feel really low, I just sit back and realize that my family is healthy and were all together and safe and we will get through this.