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    341 meeting went well, but....

    ...I also had a few complexities with my case worth noting here...so that others can learn from my experience.

    First off, I want to add that my meeting with the trustee was behind closed doors. I read on this forum where some people were questioned in an open room. That can be very intimidating and I was actually expecting this type of environment. There was a waiting room but the meeting with the trustee was in a private room with just him and your attorney.

    Before going in, my attorney told me that the trustee ends all meeting by asking the debtor how they got into debt. I said 'ugh'. I had previously posted in another message on this forum that I am under psych treatment for post traumatic stress disorder resulting from losing both parents, going to combat in Iraq, getting married and then having a child--all very sudden life changing events which turned out to contribute to my debt. My attorney had with him a psych report that my psychologist provided and asked my permission to submit it, although he did not even want to reference it.

    I was asked to raise my right hand and swore to tell the truth. I was asked a few questions about the accuracy of the schedules. I froze up in my answers because the trustee kicked off the meeting by telling us that I would have to pay about $200 more into the plan. I wondered how, and that preoccupied my mind throughout the meeting. The trustee had a very basic calculator sitting on his desk that he used to figure this using my paystubs and expenses. I'm thinking that maybe he went off the original schedules which we ended up amending before the 341 meeting. My attorney said he will run that to ground. He also cant see how I should pay more. At the meeting, we acquiesced in the trustee's calculations.

    In my trustee's 'hi I am your trustee letter' sent out when I filed for bk, there was a list of required docs the trustee needed at least 7 days before the 341 meeting. Since I knew I provided all these docs to my attorney I assumed that my attorney would submit them. I was wrong and good thing I had my rather heavy 3-ring binder with me (see my post on getting organized for the 341 meeting).

    On the spot, I had to submit 6-months of paystubs, market analysis for real or transferred property, and a worksheet which was attached to the letter where I input 6-months of gross pay, net pay, salary deductions and additional income. I filled this out for my attorney when I filed but something told me to fill it out again.

    So we went in armed with the info even though it should've been submitted prior to the meeting. The trustee politely reminded my attorney this but since they appeared to have a good rapport, he did not ding him for it.

    I was not asked about how I got into debt. Later in the parking lot my attorney admitted to me that he spoke to the trustee offline and explained to him that the nature of my debt circumstances is sensitive and to use discretion if he was going to ask me. Mabye the trustee recognized my sacrifice to this country and had mercy on me.

    I firmly believe relationships matter. My attorney also had a no-show client. He told the trustee and the trustee told him just to re-schedule with his clerk. I was fortunate enough to have an excellent attorney who had a great rapport with this trustee with whom he can speak offline.

    Before we left, my attorney showed the trustee my binder and joked I should apply for his position he is advertising for a 'bankruptcy analyst'. I actually brought this up to my attorney, that the position was advertised as he was unaware. He said I would be perfect for the job with all my attention to detail. The trustee was impressed with the binder.

    Here are/were my complexities:

    1. Amount of unsecure debt = 180k. Yes, a bit on the hefty side and very alarming. But this is a chapter 13

    2. Two transferred automobiles, transferred for less than the market value, or zero, 2.5 months before filing

    3. Pension fund repayment debt that can lead to an objection/adverserial proceeding -- (http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=43209) This pension fund attorney has already contacted my attorney on this when the fund received their notification letter. They want to know what my intent is. My attorney's position is that they were listed as an unsecure creditor and should submit their claim just like everyone else. One good thing my attorney did with this particular debt is how he listed in the schedules. In the column where you say what type of account it is, he wrote 'debt repayment to deceased father's pension fund'. This alone may have sunk the Fund's battleship by mitigitating the threat of an adversarial objection.

    I'll keep you all posted with any developments and thanks to everyone for your support on this board!
    Last edited by DSIG; 09-25-2009, 05:35 AM.

    #2
    First I want to THANK YOU for serving our country. Sounds like u had a pretty good 341 and I would feel positive about it and if (as it sounds like) your attorney and the trustee have a positive relationship its a good thing.
    Keep us posted !!
    Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones
    Chapter 13 filed 10-21-09
    Discharged 4-13-15

    Comment


      #3
      status update

      sorry that my responses are so delayed. Things felt so much calmer after the 341 meeting. Klandsb--its my honor to have served and I would do it again if I had to.....

      Wanted to give everyone an update:

      My confirmation was last Tuesday. I haven't received any confirmation letter through snail mail BUT the PACER docket history shows my plan as CONFIRMED...yippee!!

      ...can I get a hermit dance?

      I'm still holding my breath with these objections....watching on the sidelines to see if the pension fund files an objection. I have about 2.5 weeks left for the objection deadline to lapse. No proof of claim from the fund. Most creditors have submitted their proof of claim. My state's division of taxation submitted what appeared to be the sloppiest proof of claim I've seen. Its not even on the standard form--just on a memo. I'm sure they will still get paid.

      Comment


        #4
        Did you end up paying the extra $200? What did the trustee feel was out of line that resulted in the $200 increase?
        Take $10 billion from the government and then sue me...nice

        Comment


          #5
          jwmc1--thanks for asking. My plan got confirmed exactly as it was presented to the trustee at the 341 meeting...no increase in payment terms. After I thought about what happened, I realized that the trustee must've been using an amended plan but an old schedule J. Basically, after the bk was filed, my attorney immediately filed an amended schedule J because the original schedule had last-minute-changes that actually affected the means test. Our intent was to adjust the schedule J expenses to line up with the disposable income on the means test. In doing so, we dropped medical expenses by 200 which explains the trustee's math. This originally filed schedule J is what the trustee was using. As soon as my attorney spoke to the trustee's legal counsel it got all straightened out.

          Comment


            #6
            Good for you...best of luck
            Take $10 billion from the government and then sue me...nice

            Comment


              #7
              DSIG. Could you please enlighten me on where to look at your post for "getting organized for your 341"... I think I am just dead tired but getting frustrated looking for it..
              Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones
              Chapter 13 filed 10-21-09
              Discharged 4-13-15

              Comment


                #8
                Ok. I found it and am going to do it... I just have this gut feeling that my lawyer isnt going to have something...

                I went to 3 different lawyers for the free consults and to see who I wanted to go with. I walk in all of them with this thick plastic bag full of papers & folders & manilla envelopes so I am sure I will be more organized this way and not pulling stuff out of the bag ...lol ok, so maybe I am overly tired...
                Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones
                Chapter 13 filed 10-21-09
                Discharged 4-13-15

                Comment


                  #9
                  congrats DSGI

                  I'm glad to hear that your binder came in handy and that your meeting was a success. That was some great advice on organization. I had no idea you were a veteran, thank you!!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    klandsb -- it takes a bit of time to get the binder together, but it will boost your confidence. Heck, the trustee may not even mess with you if they see you have it all together. Look, things get lost and nobody is perfect, so don't take your soon-to-be-retained attorney's word that he submitted all your 341 required docs. I was complimented by my attorney. He said he usually leaves the 341 meetings with an extensive list of docs he has to submit. I had it all there for him in the binder.

                    eddiep --yep, a combat veteran! Next week is Veterans day. Looking forward to having the day off. For me, this was also the same day that I returned to my home of record back in 2005...after having redeployed from Iraq. Its amazing how time flies and some things are still the same, like Iraq is still Iraq. Anyways, it was a unique experience but I am glad I am out.
                    Last edited by DSIG; 11-05-2009, 08:54 AM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      ...oh, and there is a silver lining. My psychologist reviewed the Army's extensively documented decision for a hardship discharge denial where I requested to be discharged so I can stay home and take care of my father who was severely depressed from the loss of my mom (this all happened on the heels of my deployment). The army denied the request, deployed me anyways and then 6 months after I returned from combat my father committed suicide. Since the Army's decision is documented, my psychologist says I have solid grounds for a VA disability claim for PTSD. I kind of have mixed feelings about receiving a disability check for this, but he feels that its hard for the VA to dispute it. So, well see what happens. And the best part about it, if the claim gets approved, is that it is exempt income in the bankruptcy. The irony here is that my attorney forced me to seek counseling and now I may get some money out of it.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Wow.... you truly have had your share of heartache. Losing your mom & then your dad. Dont feel bad about recieving anything. You served your country and there are so many coming home and ending up with PTSD and it seems like no one knows what to do with them.... Wow, dont know the details but did you see about the Ft. Hood incident ?? Sometimes I just dont even want to watch the news anymore...
                        Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones
                        Chapter 13 filed 10-21-09
                        Discharged 4-13-15

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I don't feel bad now about my PTSD claim, especially after seeing what is going on at Ft. Hood. A lot of soldiers did not want to go to combat, that's a natural human response...but we dont just take human lives to show our discontent. I turned to spending although I could've turned to substance abuse also. I'm sure there is something deeper to the Ft. Hood story. We have our best and brightest on this. The CID and FBI are already involved. This incident will force open and public disclosure of situations that are probably kept secret from the public, but a by-product of the war. This is just tragic for the soldiers and their families, but maybe it may force the army to revisit how they handle requests for hardship discharge.

                          On a related note, as part of the VA claim process, I have to identify and write about two incidents, during my tour of duty, that I felt caused the PTSD. This is a bit tough for the Vietnam and WWII vets. In this information age, though, all the incidents in combat are well documented so I did not have a hard time recalling two incidents. One in particular is very closely related to the Ft. Hood incident, but just on a smaller scale. My commander was fragged while I was in Iraq. This is the open source article on the incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_...nd_Louis_Allen. This is one of the incidents I documented and then I had to write how I felt about it. I wrote that its scary to be in combat as it is, but now I have to live in fear of a fellow soldier opening fire because he is having a bad day. These circumstances are not any different than Ft. Hood--the outcome was just on a smaller scale than Ft. Hood.

                          My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the fallen and the entire Ft. Hood community. May God bless them and watch over them.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks for sharing .... My 4 yr old grandsons uncle was killed by a roadside bomb in Iraq. He was one of those guys who you just knew would make it out.. Determined, kinda cocky, but loved the military .... I am sad that my grandson will never get to know him... I got to watch the service for him that was held in Iraq by his troop (not sure if thats what you call them) it was just heartbreaking and I cried the entire time watching it but he was very deserving of all the compliments that were spoken of him.. He really was a great young soldier...
                            Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones
                            Chapter 13 filed 10-21-09
                            Discharged 4-13-15

                            Comment


                              #15
                              when you pay respect to the fallen by having to salute their kevlar, weapon, dog tags and boots....it chokes you up. The service you watched probably captured that image. I choke up when I see those memorials. How did you get to watch the service? Was it through our media or thorugh a special combat camera they allowed for the loved ones back home? There was a soldier while I was there who would've gone ballistic if he was could not be present at the deliver of his child. His wife went into labor early and they could not get him out of theater fast enough for the delivery. Somehow they were able to do a video teleconference and he saw it that way. For those types of things the military does come through. They do ultimately take care of their large family even though they put the soldiers lives in harms way.

                              Thanks for sharing too

                              Comment

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