Budget - thoughts!

[Momof123]

Thank you all. I do have a car payment but have about a year and half left on the loan? Well I have contacted several local attorneys 2 didn't do 13's one said they only did creditor rights and one had a free initial consultation and the other one wants 200.00 up front but said that would be put into the attorney fees.

[bugasbaby]

I only told two people...one was my boss...I was worried I would lose my job and my co-worker...she answers my phone sometimes and I didn't want her to wonder...we all know each other for years over 20. I know when my dad finds out he is going to have a fit but oh well...I am 39 and I made a few bad choices. Like he didn't LOL!

I reran the numbers and it looks like $800 left over a month right now...then when first 401k loan comes off $1,325. and second $1,625.

I am really starting to feel relieved....maybe I'll get a good night's sleep soon.

[SMinGA]

I think its a little hard to bare all to family/friends. Behind the anonymity of an online forum, however, its a little easier to face the facts.

[bugasbaby]

Hi again....ran through the numbers here and I think we are ok. Haircuts I moved into personal care...moved some things around...We are going to retain an attorney in the next few weeks. I want to have consults with at least one more. The first we went to has been doing this since 1968...has a small office...he seemed very knowledgeable..I now agree with his 100% payback when I ran the numbers and included bonuses. I'm pretty sure we will be at 100% before 5 years also...maybe less when hubby starts as an RN rather than a CNA..he will go from $15 an hour to about $35. That won't be fore 2 years but we will be in the planw hen he does. I know we will have to modify the plan, but the sooner I can get this chapter of my life closed the better. Thank you all so much for the info and support. It's amazing the support you get from strangers is sometime so much more than family and friends!

[bugasbaby]

Morning...went through the numbers again last night with hubby and I think we are at peace with this...

I commute to work via public transportation to so I do not drive...hubby drives about 10 miles a day to a from work. $40 a week for gas is if we go visit his sister...I forgot to add my commuting expense in...it's only $90. a month but in NYC the trustee should already know that.

I am going to rerun them today a work and see how it goes...

[SMinGA]

The charity won't be an issue - based on the small amount you stated and your indication you can back that up. Charity/tithing can't be forced out unless its something extreme and/or brand new. As in it looks like you started tithing $500/mo just before filing to keep your payment low.

Entertainment & holiday/gift expenses are generally allowed - though the amounts should be reasonable. I think it may depend on the overall figures though. If you're at or above the IRS limits, documentation or not, on everything you may have a harder time getting these categories thru. But if our #s overall are reasonable based on your district & family size (your atty will know what is reasonable) then it should be fine.

As for categorizing things together, your attorney will know how to fill in your schedule J (expenses) and there is no harm in breaking it down for your own purposes in whatever way works best for you.

Last, it seems common for those who are proposing a significant payback to unsecured to have very little argument from the trustee about their expenses. Assuming again nothing extreme or unreasonable.

Thank you!! This was my first run through so I will make changes. I've finally come to grips with the fact I have yo do this....all your help is greatly appreciated. I definitely need to do more research too

Thanks again

[SMinGA]

Gas will depend on how much someone drives. If you both drive alot such as for your daily commute, then you'll have more than someone who lives closer to work. You do NOT want to know how many miles hubby & I do each week.

The means test can also be negative because it uses IRS #s where some of your actual may be lower. For someone trying to qualify for 7 this helps. For someone needing to do a 13, make sure your atty includes your actual expenses on schedule J.

We are working on our numbers too. We filed and CH7 discharged in 8/05 so we will have to go the CH13 route. Family of 4

Mortgage 839.00
car payment 235.00
car insurance 153.00
electric 125.00
phone 85.00
cable 85.00
water and sewer 50.00
gas for cars 480.00 ( not sure why yours is only 160.00??) is ours too high??
food 700.00
household items 100.00
clothing 100.00
home maintenance 100.00

what else am I missing and what am I allowed??
the gas amounts kinda of throw me, dh and I have to fill up twice a week??

I also did the means test and we are negative. Not sure but will we only have to pay the trustee and attorney through our plan??


total 3052.00
take home pay 3400.00

[SMinGA]

If you have filed ch. 7 in the past 8 years, you cannot file ch. 7 again. So if you need bankruptcy relief, you must make a 13 work.

We are in that situation - and had to find more income to be in a situation where our regular expenses/bills were less than our net income. And as such that will allow us to do a ch. 13. Another way of making the #'s work is with a car loan. Say you really don't have DMI, but you have 2 years left on a $400/mo car loan. That can become a $400/mo ch. 13 payment. 3-5 years, depending on over or under median, paying the loan off & trustee fees. And a little for unsecured if you go 5...

Still learning here - how could that happen? How would you NOT qualify for a CH 7 if your means test is negative?

[ssmdem]

If your means test is negative, but you don't qualify for ch.7, then they will use your schedules I & J to determine your DMI.

Still learning here - how could that happen? How would you NOT qualify for a CH 7 if your means test is negative?

[momofthree]

We are working on our numbers too. We filed and CH7 discharged in 8/05 so we will have to go the CH13 route. Family of 4

Mortgage 839.00
car payment 235.00
car insurance 153.00
electric 125.00
phone 85.00
cable 85.00
water and sewer 50.00
gas for cars 480.00 ( not sure why yours is only 160.00??) is ours too high??
food 700.00
household items 100.00
clothing 100.00
home maintenance 100.00

what else am I missing and what am I allowed??
the gas amounts kinda of throw me, dh and I have to fill up twice a week??

I also did the means test and we are negative. Not sure but will we only have to pay the trustee and attorney through our plan??


total 3052.00
take home pay 3400.00

Our means test was negative by over $1000 a month, and we were just basically told that if we wanted to file, we had to "make the numbers work to support a plan payment." I asked if we could just pay the attorney and trustee fees and was told that that was considered filing in "bad faith," so we are paying our car payment thru the plan. If your means test is negative, but you don't qualify for ch.7, then they will use your schedules I & J to determine your DMI.

At our 341, the trustee warned our attorney that only paying secured debt and 0% to secured creditors is getting closer scrutiny and that there is a judge in our district who is siding with the trustee in these cases when they object. However, she felt that in our case, our "totality of circumstances" didn't indicate bad faith, and she reluctantly approved our plan. Our attorney was totally ready to go to bat for us though; finding the right attorney is key.

[Momof123]

We are working on our numbers too. We filed and CH7 discharged in 8/05 so we will have to go the CH13 route. Family of 4

Mortgage 839.00
car payment 235.00
car insurance 153.00
electric 125.00
phone 85.00
cable 85.00
water and sewer 50.00
gas for cars 480.00 ( not sure why yours is only 160.00??) is ours too high??
food 700.00
household items 100.00
clothing 100.00
home maintenance 100.00

what else am I missing and what am I allowed??
the gas amounts kinda of throw me, dh and I have to fill up twice a week??

I also did the means test and we are negative. Not sure but will we only have to pay the trustee and attorney through our plan??


total 3052.00
take home pay 3400.00

[bugasbaby]

Thank you!! This was my first run through so I will make changes. I've finally come to grips with the fact I have yo do this....all your help is greatly appreciated. I definitely need to do more research too

Thanks again

[debtinohio]

Leave the charitable, try to pad some of the other expenses to take care of your gifts, etc. Don't leave money on the table for food, clothing, etc. Try to take the full IRS amounts. This way, you can pad it enough to get what your're looking for while still funding your plan. The less attention you draw to your budget, the better.

This is mine, approved, for a family of 5.

House $1816
RE Taxes $420
Electric/Heating Gas $310
Water/Sewer $90
Telephone $65
Alarm $40
Cell $160
Cable/Internet $115
Home Maintenance $100
Food $720
Clothing $75
Laundry/Drycleaning $50
Medical/Dental $50 (I have $400 going into an HSA outside of this though under my insurance costs)
Gas/Transportation/auto repair $315
Recreation/Clubs $110
Homeowners Insurance $80
Car Insurance $138
Student Loan $235
Vet $30

That's it, that's all of my actual schedule J.

I have the 2 car payments inside the plan:

Car Pmt $599
Car Pmt $600 (reduced to $460 in 1 year)

I stopped doing drycleaning to save money, now shop at Aldi & Walmart for food, the home phone is only $44 and I've gotton Electric/Gas down to $215 by really trying to conserve but the car insurance and house taxes have already gone up about $100/month total. It's a give and take to make stuff work. We also get to keep work bonuses & tax refunds so that helps with vacations/gifts/savings.

[bugasbaby]

Hi there

thanks for the input!!!!!!

Laundromat, detergent, softener, etc.: 40 - This should be under household items above and kept at $100 - I actually have to go to the laundry mat and pay $40 a month...I do not dry clean anything. The detergent and softener I can keep under the household


Prescriptions and "OTC" medications: 75 - You should take the IRS amount for this, it's higher - I will take a look


Recreation & entertainment: 125 - This is high, I was allowed 0 others have $75-100, it just depends on the trustee...I am going to adjust this down to $75 for son's swimming lessions

Presents for holidays, birthdays, etc.: 100 - This most likely won't go, I have 0 for this....hmmm....I thought this would be ok....

Charitable contributions: 22 - Maybe - depends on who and how long you've been doing it....I've been sending Childrens Intl for years...I cannot stop sending...I'd figure something out

Tires: 25,Auto repairs: 50,Vehicle maintenance: 50,Vehicle tax & registration: 30 - These 4 should be under 1 'Auto Maintenance' category, and they will never allow $155/month in auto maintenance for a car that's $521/month, if it's for a high-mileage paid for car, perhaps....got check this out...oil changes, registration, inspection and tires are some thing we do have receipts for...

Haircuts: 25 - Per month, this is high. Hubby gets a hair cut every month and needs to clean cut for work...

Work lunches: 125 - This should be put under food, otherwise it draws unnecessary attention to it....ok I will make an adjustment

[debtinohio]

My opinion based on my experience...

Mortgage: $936 - Fine
Co-op Maintenance $765 - Fine
Homeowner's insurance: 40 - Fine
Electricity: 100 - Fine
Cell phone/pager: 105 - Fine (mines $165 approved)
Cable/Internet/Phone 175 - Fine
Home Maintenance: 100 - Fine (I have this same amount)
Food: 500 - Fine
Household items (non-food items): 100 - - Fine
Hygiene supplies: 50 - Fine
Clothing: 100 - Fine
Laundromat, detergent, softener, etc.: 40 - This should be under household items above and kept at $100
Prescriptions and "OTC" medications: 75 - You should take the IRS amount for this, it's higher
Recreation & entertainment: 125 - This is high, I was allowed 0 others have $75-100, it just depends on the trustee
Presents for holidays, birthdays, etc.: 100 - This most likely won't go, I have 0 for this
Charitable contributions: 22 - Maybe - depends on who and how long you've been doing it.
Auto Insurance: 140 - Fine
Car Payment $ 521 - Fine
Gasoline: 160 - Fine
Tires: 25,Auto repairs: 50,Vehicle maintenance: 50,Vehicle tax & registration: 30 - These 4 should be under 1 'Auto Maintenance' category, and they will never allow $155/month in auto maintenance for a car that's $521/month, if it's for a high-mileage paid for car, perhaps.
Haircuts: 25 - Per month, this is high.
Work lunches: 125 - This should be put under food, otherwise it draws unnecessary attention to it.
Pet food/supplies: 40 - Fine