Ch 13 questions OH DEAR what to do!!!! *SIGH*

[blessedmommy]

1. Can I file myself without an attorney I really don't want the added expense.
if so how? and in my situation (described below) would it just be better to get attorney?

2. how do they determine how much you pay back and monthly amount?

Our situation:
we do not own our home my father in law does and we pay him interest only every month.
we have 4 cars all old (1983-1995) 3 of them are on a secured loan as calateral on a 23% interest rate. *sigh*. 2 of them aren't running one is used 2 times a year sometimes a bit more.

That is all we have cars are worth very little.
1983 honda civic running my husbands work car
1995 ford clubwagon to haul our 7 kids currently not running secured on loan
1885 chevy subberben running just given to us recently by best friend still not in our name.
1990 chevy astro not running secured on personal loan we took for clubwagon
1980 ford truck barely running (for hobby farm use) secured on loan

and thats it for assets. We have 2 computers one is 5 years old one is a $300 laptop. But we live in a mobile home on rented land. Oh also we do have $1200 in a 401k

We have about $25,000 in cc debt on top of the loan which is about $4000 now I think.
We do not own anything else.
We make $47,000 year in WA state with 9 in our family.
We were making alot more until my dh work got drastically cut back.
Our income is regular now and we make extra income of about $500 a month with things I do from home.

We signed up for a credit settlement company. One card is paid off the others (there are 7) are still hanging and we are getting law suits summons now from several of them. So I see no other way.
the VERY sad thing is we filed CH 7 5 years ago. due to a business going under (home business) please try hard not to judge we haven't been the best with money but we also have had some circumstances that have been out of our control. LONG STORY!!! but has to do with housing and failing sales.

Anyway what does it look like I should do? I want to just stick with the debt settlement company but these creditors are HOUNDING us and with all these summons coming in and wage garnishment threats I am scared pooless!!! We already have nothing left over at the end of the month.
I am on a VERY strict budget right now trying to pay down debt but we have that many more cards after us for more.

this is long I know thanks for reading thus far.

I am happy to post my budget on here if that helps someone understand our situation

ONe more thing can we pay extra towards debt while in a ch 13 like in the form of tax return. We get usually about $5000 back a year I would like to put that all towards the debt?

[newbie2]

1. Can I file myself without an attorney I really don't want the added expense.
if so how? and in my situation (described below) would it just be better to get attorney?

2. how do they determine how much you pay back and monthly amount?

Our situation:
we do not own our home my father in law does and we pay him interest only every month.
we have 4 cars all old (1983-1995) 3 of them are on a secured loan as calateral on a 23% interest rate. *sigh*. 2 of them aren't running one is used 2 times a year sometimes a bit more.

That is all we have cars are worth very little.
1983 honda civic running my husbands work car
1995 ford clubwagon to haul our 7 kids currently not running secured on loan
1885 chevy subberben running just given to us recently by best friend still not in our name.
1990 chevy astro not running secured on personal loan we took for clubwagon
1980 ford truck barely running (for hobby farm use) secured on loan

and thats it for assets. We have 2 computers one is 5 years old one is a $300 laptop. But we live in a mobile home on rented land. Oh also we do have $1200 in a 401k

We have about $25,000 in cc debt on top of the loan which is about $4000 now I think.
We do not own anything else.
We make $47,000 year in WA state with 9 in our family.
We were making alot more until my dh work got drastically cut back.
Our income is regular now and we make extra income of about $500 a month with things I do from home.

We signed up for a credit settlement company. One card is paid off the others (there are 7) are still hanging and we are getting law suits summons now from several of them. So I see no other way.
the VERY sad thing is we filed CH 7 5 years ago. due to a business going under (home business) please try hard not to judge we haven't been the best with money but we also have had some circumstances that have been out of our control. LONG STORY!!! but has to do with housing and failing sales.

Anyway what does it look like I should do? I want to just stick with the debt settlement company but these creditors are HOUNDING us and with all these summons coming in and wage garnishment threats I am scared pooless!!! We already have nothing left over at the end of the month.
I am on a VERY strict budget right now trying to pay down debt but we have that many more cards after us for more.

this is long I know thanks for reading thus far.

I am happy to post my budget on here if that helps someone understand our situation

ONe more thing can we pay extra towards debt while in a ch 13 like in the form of tax return. We get usually about $5000 back a year I would like to put that all towards the debt?

If your income is only $47,000 a year, and you have a family of 9, then you can file for a Chapter 7.

Also, a Chapter 13 is a different animal so to speak. I wouldn't even attempt it on my own.

You really need to sit down and talk with an attorney or two. First consults are free, take advantage of them please.

[blessedmommy]

we can't file chapter 7 again as we just did 5 years ago due to home business failure and I really don't want to do that again as I think its morally wrong I want to repay my debts.
But I will look at getting an attorney thank you for your advice. I am just scared at trying to come up with the money for one. EEKS!!!

[momofthree]

I commented on your other post.

[ugghh]

From what I think I understand, you can roll some of the cost of a Ch13 into your plan.

I would also think about using your Tax Return for an attorney instead of paying creditors.

[starr4law]

You would need to file a Ch 13 - which I wouldn't even attempt to do without an attorney (believe me, you don't want to try). The "good" thing about a Ch 13 is that you can put some of the attorney fees (depending on the attorney) and the filing fee right into the Plan. The bad news is I don't know how you would even be feasible. One thing you could consider is figure out if you can get into a plan for about $125/mo and then pledge a portion of your tax return as well (you will need to pay at least enough into the plan to pay the Trustee's fee and the atty fee and the filing fee). You will almost certainly be in a 36 mo plan and that wouldn't be too much of a hardship. I've seen people file Ch 13's simply because they do not have the atty fees and then convert to a Ch 7 when the atty fee is paid in full (I do not recommend this). However, you will have issues with a conversion because of your previous filing.

Good luck

[Pandora]

I agree with the others in both of your postings - your case is going to be a hard one given its only been 5 years from your Ch. 7 and you're back up there again.

Dont try this on your own - even if you qualify for a Ch. 13 plan, the trustee may not think its feasible. You need to speak with a very experienced lawyer who deals specifically with CH. 13's.

[blessedmommy]

Thank you star4law.

I am paying $200 a month now to one credit card so I figured I could bump that up to $250 a month and then pledge my $5000 yearly tax return. Do you think that could work? I am DETERMINED to pay down this debt. We have paid one credit card off just by living on a budget gee what a concept we should of thought about years ago *sigh*. I deserve a HUGE spanking!! Although I think I am getting that now this is one emotional ride I will tell ya.

I wonder if the above plan would work? how come we wouldn't be able to do the 5 year? and would we pay 100% of the debt? which is what I want to do! how do we figure that out? Its all cc debt except for a personal loan with 3 of my old vehicles for callateral.
I emailed a local attorney!!! I am just nervous going to just anyone. We only have two bankruptcy attorneys in our immediate area and one has horrible reviews. The other charges $3800 OUCH but its a $500 deposit and then the rest in repayment.

Thanks for your advice, Whatcha think about my above plan? Do you think its doable? Trust me we have learned to be VERY VERY VERY frugal through all this and we pinch every penny so I really think the $250 is doable for us because we are learning to live on beans and rice LOL

[Pandora]

Thank you star4law.

I am paying $200 a month now to one credit card so I figured I could bump that up to $250 a month and then pledge my $5000 yearly tax return. Do you think that could work? I am DETERMINED to pay down this debt. We have paid one credit card off just by living on a budget gee what a concept we should of thought about years ago *sigh*. I deserve a HUGE spanking!! Although I think I am getting that now this is one emotional ride I will tell ya.

I wonder if the above plan would work? how come we wouldn't be able to do the 5 year? and would we pay 100% of the debt? which is what I want to do! how do we figure that out? Its all cc debt except for a personal loan with 3 of my old vehicles for callateral.
I emailed a local attorney!!! I am just nervous going to just anyone. We only have two bankruptcy attorneys in our immediate area and one has horrible reviews. The other charges $3800 OUCH but its a $500 deposit and then the rest in repayment.

Thanks for your advice, Whatcha think about my above plan? Do you think its doable? Trust me we have learned to be VERY VERY VERY frugal through all this and we pinch every penny so I really think the $250 is doable for us because we are learning to live on beans and rice LOL

its not up to you on what your plan payback is - or what you think you can afford - its up to your monthly income, your assets (if any), your exemptions - and bottom line - the trustee. He/she is the one that makes the final determination of if your plan is going to be feasible long term. If its not, then they will not approve the plan and you'll have to figure out another way to pay back the debts (i.e., settle or just sit it out and wait until you can file Ch. 7 again).

Have you done the means test to start? Its only one part of it, but its a start.

[blessedmommy]

I have looked at the means test but is there a way to take it so it can figure it all out for me?

Pandora yes I feel like SHI* because of this!!! feel like burrying myself in a whole so I can hide and noone can see me. it is very humiliating to say the least. I have cried many tears and repented over and over all I can do is hang my head low and look like a total shi*head!!!

[Pandora]

no need to feel like that - we all make mistakes in life - no worries on that from anyone on here.

you can start here and read

http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20091101/meanstesting.htm

[momofthree]

I think the means test will be pointless for you. It will be hugely negative due to your low income and large family. You aren't even required to fill it out since you're way under median income.

You should not have to feed your children on rice and beans. This is a huge red flag to me that you need an attorney who will fight for you because you're not even fighting for yourself at this point!

Being frugal is one thing (I'm a frugal mama myself!) but you still need to be realistic and living bare bones for 3 years, especially when you have 7 children, is not realistic. Medical expenses will come up, car repairs will come up, school expenses, clothing, etc.

You need to be able to live while you pay down your debt. And remember, just because you discharge your liability in bankruptcy doesn't mean you can't pay your debt in full later on down the line.

[catleg]

Agreed, the means test is not relevant in your case.

You just need to put down some kind of budget that uses up all your income except for about 100-200 a month which will go into your plan.

I don't know why you're overpaying taxes by 5k a year...unless that is EIC money, then I understand. I think you need to budget in such a way that the tax refund money is accounted for, and used, throughout the year.

You should be able to pay off secured loan balance and the lawyer out of your plan payments times 36 months. You will stop paying the secured loan 23% in the plan, more like 3% (till rate).

Being under median you have a lot more flexibility with the budget than others.

[momofthree]

With 7 kids, I'm guessing that even if OP goes exempt all year, they'll still get a refund due to the child tax credit. $1000 per kid really adds up! We go exempt all year, and still get a refund and we only have 3 kids! Though I think we'll probably owe this year without the 2nd mortgage...

Sorry to hijack....carry on.

[pepperoncini]

With 7 kids, I'm guessing that even if OP goes exempt all year, they'll still get a refund due to the child tax credit. $1000 per kid really adds up! We go exempt all year, and still get a refund and we only have 3 kids! Though I think we'll probably owe this year without the 2nd mortgage...

Sorry to hijack....carry on.

Agreed. This is my situation as well...we have 4 kids and made $37K last year. Got $8400 back...