Chapter 13 Repayment Plan

[precept151]

Hi,

My husband and I just filed for ch. 13 and I am trying to figure out how the lawyer came to his amount for our repayment plan. Is there a calculator out there for this? If not, how, exactly, can I find out how to figure it out? Our payment is too high because of errors and after errors I want to see what it would be before taking it back to him to correct. Don't have the friendliest lawyer so I'm basically doing his job for him, unfortunately. I need this information with a quickness to modify our plan. Thank you to anyone who knows what to do.

[Pandora]

your plan payment is based on several things - but first and foremost it starts with your DMI (pay - expenses = DMI). Other major thing is if you have any arrears from mortgage, back taxes, any other type of secured item (like a car), and any non-exempt items you chose to keep that is required to be paid into your plan.

If you'd like to post your income - expenses, we can look at it for you to see how your lawyer came up with the number.

[precept151]

Hi Pandora,

I don't have all that information as I was not given a copy. Only have B22C right now. I am waiting for his reply to get the rest.

Basically, there's no arrears of mortgage. We lost AZ home and I currently have a FL home (current on payments) not included in plan. Lawyer is filing to cut out the 25k Heloc that was attached to the AZ home since we no longer have it. My husband's truck is not included. My car is. The DMI he got was $1311.57. When we return to ammend that (since there are errors), we got DMI $671.74. Can you calculate from this? Or is more paperwork needed to do it? We are filing from Oklahoma since this is the place we've been the better of 180 days, just in case you need to know.

P. S. He came up with payment of $1750/mo.

[Pandora]

Okay so... you currently live in OK - are filing BK due to home in AZ... yet have another home in FL and have to use OK exemptions? Is this correct, because its a bit confusing? I'm not entirely sure why you're including a 2nd mortgage from your house in AZ... did they sue you for deficiency or something from the 2nd? I've never heard of trying to strip a 2nd lien after a home has been foreclosed upon... that seems very backwards to me. Usually you only do so if you're keeping the house. What are you doing with the home in FL and in OK? (see this is where it gets confusing)

To calculate your DMI and what your payment would be - you have to take your gross monthly income, subtract taxes, insurance, etc to get your NET. From there, deduct all expenses you have and that will give you your DMI.

As far as your 13 plan - you must pay for items you want to keep (i.e., your car) as well as any equity you have in them that cannot be exempted. This goes for basically anything that cannot be exempted; if you want to keep it, you must pay for it (CH. 7 liquidation rules apply). Again, anything that is secured or priority must be paid - unsecured creditors get a % of the rest (0% to 100% it just depends).

A plan payment of 1311.57 will be a payback of anywhere from $47K - 78K depending on 36 or 60 month.
$1750 a month = 63K - 105K payback - and if what you have is correct at $671.74 it would be $24K - 40K payback. Whether or not that includes your lawyer and trustee fees - thats something you need to ask your lawyer.

So - bottom line is again, what are you paying in your plan that's secured, priority, and unsecured? Why dont you have a copy of your schedules? You should have them, even if not submitted yet, you should've been provided with a copy so that you can go over everything if there ever were errors before submission. Even on the B22C form it has a breakdown of expenses using IRS standards - and that is where I believe your lawyer may be getting his DMI calculation different from yours. Are you using actual or IRS standard amounts? Your lawyer should be sitting down with you and going over items line per line - working for you and not the creditors, to allow you the most $ per month possible. Your B22c form has all of the information on it.

You need to get this taken care of before your lawyer files, you dont want to end up in a plan that you cannot afford.

[precept151]

Hi Pandora,

See why I didn't want to mention too much? It is just too confusing. I just wanted to know what the calculation and/or whatever forms used for figuring how the payment plan for a Ch. 13 is made. We aren't filing because of losing the AZ house. We have $75,000 in unsecured debt. We tried selling the house, but since the banks make more money on a foreclosure, they wouldn't accept any offers-even those above fair market value. The move to OK was for work and it wasn't paid for so added to our debt. We rent in OK. We had a Heloc attached to the AZ house that was paid off thru an insurance company and they started after us after the foreclosure. The HOA from AZ tried to sue but didn't check to see that the house foreclosed. Adding them to the Ch. 13. The house in Fl is mine and has been for 11years and am not giving it up. We each have a vehicle. My husband got his truck under two years ago so that and my FL house will not be in the 100% plan. My vehicle will be in the plan. That's all we have secured debt. So, to make it easier. We have already filed for Ch 13. The payment is too much. Since we haven't confirmed at a 341 meeting, we are trying to amend our plan. Our dumb-a** lawyer has been very vague and unhelpful and now I'm trying to do it myself as well as making him work with us. Yes, we should've gotten a copy of our paperwork and I'm still working on that. In the meantime, I'm trying to figure out how he came to the payment amount?? I want to know the exact simple way they figure it to make sure the lawyer isn't scamming or screwing us. I already have gone over the B22C since that is all he gave me so far and there are errors. I don't know why, but I just feel like he's being secretive or just not helpful along with a little attitude and we are not happy with him. We don't feel he is doing anything in our best interest. That is why I am trying to back ourselves up to get things straight. If you can simplify my original question about how to get to the payment plan amount, I would greatly appreciate it. I don't know how much time I have and am working diligently to get this done. It's depressing the cr*p out of me. Thank you for all your help. I love these forums as they've been more helpful to me than my cousel.

[Pandora]

You dont say if you're in "pre-filing" stages or if you've had your 341 yet, so you can only go off of the B22C. Since you have the B22C in front of you - you can post the amounts if you want to, from start to finish - it will show everything your lawyer has because the end result is how much you have left/whats required in your plan. Then you can post what you put in to get your amount of $671 DMI, and we can try to figure it out from there. Make sure you account for any equity you have in your house as well.

The thing I see as the big red flag is your comment of "The payment is too much. Since we haven't confirmed at a 341 meeting, we are trying to amend our plan." Again, I'm not sure if you're in pre-filing or what - but if you cannot afford what is proposed, then you're set up to fail. If the Trustee doesnt think your plan is feasible, he/she will not approve it.

[FishersMike]

And if you have filed -- you can obtain all the paperwork in your filing by going to PACER's website and download

[momofthree]

There are several situations that can create a minimum that needs to be paid into the plan. If you are keeping non-exempt assets, have past taxes, mortgage arrears, etc. This can complicate the calculation.

Assuming you can exempt all your assets, and don't have past taxes, mortgage arrears, or anything else that would cause a minimum amount, then the calculation is pretty straightforward. It's simply income minus expenses = DMI = plan payment. Keep in mind that if your home, car, etc is being paid thru the plan, then that payment will not be counted as an expense and will therefore show a higher dmi. If you're not aware of that, it could cause quite a panic.

Since it sounds like you've already filed, look up your case on Pacer (there is a sticky in one of these forums with instructions--too lazy to find it for ya. ), and then you can look over every single document that your attorney submitted and find out what expenses he used on your schedule J, make sure your schedule I income is correct, and see what secured payments are included in your plan.

Good luck and keep us posted.