Am I on the right track or totally crazy...

[beachgirl]

First of all, let me say a big THANK YOU to everyone on this site. We've been trying to decide what to do about our finances, and this has been a huge help. As I have said before, we had our 1st free consultation a few weeks ago, and the monthly amount the attorney gave us was ridiculous. I finally sat down today with the paperwork, and all he did to get to that amount was divide our total debt by 60. He didn't average in my expenses or anything! We are making an appointment w/another attorney and was curious if my expenses are pretty normal or way off base:
House - 900/mo
Car - 450/mo (not sure if I can continue paying as normal or if this will be paid through the Ch. 13)
Gas - 100/mo
Elec. - 150/mo
phone - 45/mo
cell phone - 100/mo
water/sewer/trash - 60/mo
life ins. - 14/mo
satellite - 60/mo
car ins. - 140/mo
internet - 20/mo
school lunch - 65/mo
groceries - 600/mo (family of 4 incl. 2 teens!)
clothing - 200/mo
household supplies - 50/mo
vehicle registration - 20/mo
gas - 350/mo (and rising!!!!!!!)
pet supplies - 20/mo
haircuts - 50/mo
charities - 10/mo
personal care - 50/mo
vehicle maint. - 50/mo
home maint. - 50/mo
school supplies/fees - 50/mo
tax prep - 5/mo
doctor/dentist visits - 100/mo
prescriptions - 50/mo
holidays - 100/mo
entertainment - 100/mo
postage - 10/mo
bank fees - 7/mo
magazines/newspapers - 5/mo
club fees - 25/mo

total expenses: 4006

Our income was averaged at about 5000/mo. That leaves us with disposable income of 994.00. The attorney told us we would have to pay over 2000/mo!!!! How would that be possible!?!?!

Anyway, if you would give me some input on my expenses, it would be great. I may be way low on some things, way high on others? Maybe some of the things I've included, I can't? Anything I left out?

[SinkingFast]

Looking pretty good!

Just a few tips,............

Your dental, medical, scripts and all medical type expenses will be lumped together under one "Medical" category on the Petition. So add all those numbers together. And be sure you've thought back over the last year and included everything. Out of pocket deductibles to start the year, the $15 copay to go to the doctor for an office visit. I noticed you have teens. If you haven't already you'll probably will have to deal with oral surgery for wisdom teeth. Been there twice already and one to go. Maybe you'll remember an expense or 2 you forgot from last year. So maybe pad in a bit more there to allow for an ER visit. The unexpected that might come up.

Your pet expenses. Did you allow for a visit to the Vet/year?? That added $15/mo for us on the pet. Plus food and litter, we came up with $35/mo.

By Holidays, do you mean Vacations?? Cause there's not a category for that and that's probably an Expense the Court will allow in the Misc category. Not saying you won't get it thru, but I haven't seen Vacations listed on any Schedule J on PACER that I've looked at. No attny has even mentioned vacations during all the Consults we went to.

School supplies/fees. Do your kids participate in extra curricular activities?? Because there's a certain level for public school built into the Schedules already. And you'll have to have a bona fide reason for the extra expense. Like our girls swim. And that costs $$$ on top of what the school pays. So we got to deduct that. And we have to rent their school books here, so we got to deduct that. But pencils and paper, that's already built into the Schedules.

We claimed $75/mo for home maint and we rent. That's how much we spent for light bulbs, new curtains, replace towels and linens, buy some new blankets, new coffee maker. etc. Just routine stuff that wears out. So you might wanna boost that home maint budget.

In your Household Supplies, the petition will call that Cleaning Supplies. You can include the costs for dry cleaning there. Do you do any of that each year? We take coats and other things to the cleaners every year. That added an extra $20/mo right there.

Keep in mind too, that attnys are gonna adjust your $$ amounts according to what they know the Court expects to see and what they know they can get thru. It's kind of a balancing act of what you actually spend, what the Schedules allow you to spend, and what the Court is used to seeing in your area.

[beachgirl]

Thanks so much for the tips! You brought up alot of things I haven't thought of. Concerning the medical...am I allowed to add the things in that I know will be coming in the future? My daughter will need braces soon, but I didn't figure that in since it's not presently a factor. My son plays sports and I've tried to add that into school fees and entertainment (wasn't sure if they would allow for sports fees) Holidays, I meant Christmas presents, bday gifts, etc. Any other advice will be greatly appreciated!

[13inOR]

On ours, the attorney considered gifts part of the miscellaneous.
When your
daughter needs braces, you can have the plan modified to accomodate them. Thats what we did.

[SinkingFast]

Thanks so much for the tips! You brought up alot of things I haven't thought of. Concerning the medical...am I allowed to add the things in that I know will be coming in the future? My daughter will need braces soon, but I didn't figure that in since it's not presently a factor. My son plays sports and I've tried to add that into school fees and entertainment (wasn't sure if they would allow for sports fees) Holidays, I meant Christmas presents, bday gifts, etc. Any other advice will be greatly appreciated!

If the dentist has already advised your daughter get braces and you intend on taking her soon, then by all means, include the expense if your attny will allow you to. Be sure to explain this is a course of treatment that has been advised by your Dentist but you've not yet begun. Also, as a CYA, get a statement from your Dentist stating the need for braces, and get a statement from the Orthodontist about how much he/she will charge. I know well from personal experience, twice on one child, that first visit is expensive and so are the monthly payments.

Attnys and the Court can be very reasonable at times when you're honest up front about what's going on and explain in detail what you're going to need.

Our attny allowed us to expense out the girls' swimming for the High School team. We have suits, a pay to play fee, and extras for each girl. The paralegal said that's treated as if you were renting an instrument for Band.

Gifts is what you meant when you said Holidays! LOL!! You'll get that one. No problem. Almost every filing I've seen on PACER has an allowance for gifts.

[aa06a47]

Our income was averaged at about 5000/mo. That leaves us with disposable income of 994.00. The attorney told us we would have to pay over 2000/mo!!!! How would that be possible!?!?!

Anyway, if you would give me some input on my expenses, it would be great. I may be way low on some things, way high on others? Maybe some of the things I've included, I can't? Anything I left out?[/QUOTE]

I did not see anything for property tax / license for your vehical. Homes association dues if you have any? Is you 5K per month you average net or gross for past 6 months?..ie, you don't show your taxes, but that may already be taken out if your take home is 5k per month.

[aa06a47]

Another question....do you have a large amount of non-exempt property? Your payment may be based on having to give in a chapter 13 as much as you would give in a chapter 7 (no matter what your expenses). For example, if you have 60K in non-exempt property, you would have to pay 2K / month (2k x 12monthx 5 years = 60K)in a chapter 13 in order to keep it. Otherwise, the good old trustee will take it.

I think this is one of the big downsides of a bk, especially chapter 13. If you take out a 2nd mortgage and basically eliminate your equity, you will not only get to take the 2nd mortgage as an expense, but you will also not be required to pay back the "equity" in 5 years. (More like 15 or whatever the terms are). BK laws "encourage" pre-planning to maximize relief.