Motion to Deny Confirmation

[aa06a47]

aa, my lawyer said no 401k what so ever, that they would raise my payment if they saw it, was adamant on that, so it may be local trustee.

Well, my plan was nailed down today, trustee told my attorney today if I would agree to $330.00 per month, it will be confirmed at next Monday's hearing. I said OK. $330 is $110 more than my original plan. He wouldn't allow the $100 for cable tv and I was paying like 10 bucks too much for internet.....guess how he came up with $110.00 more.

I could take it to the judge if I wanted, but I decided, well, I wouldn't approve a $100 cable bill either...so figure the judge wouldn't either. I like my cable tv, but I can probably live just fine without it. Locally, there are several stations.

The 401K contributions stand and are allowed. They amount to 3% of my income, which she said was allowed. Another reason to walk softly.

I liked my first payment of $220/month, but can live with the $330/month. Attorney said creditors will be less likely to object later down the road as well.

[inseriousdebt]

401K contributions.....

We were told in our first meeting with our attorney that we WILL be allowed to contribute "a reasonable amount" as well in a Chapter 13 plan. I am assuming this will be around the 3%, which we already do. This was a surprise to me as well, as I have heard many different scenarios on this forum.

[aa06a47]

We were told in our first meeting with our attorney that we WILL be allowed to contribute "a reasonable amount" as well in a Chapter 13 plan. I am assuming this will be around the 3%, which we already do. This was a surprise to me as well, as I have heard many different scenarios on this forum.

It is very unfair to allow 401k's in some bk districts and not others. My attorney said the trustee and bk judge allows 3% to go toward the plan. Why would others be told, no way, zilch? Congress needs to set a % on this like they did for charitable contributions.

In fact, I think they should just mandate a 5% savings (either in 401k or regular savings). If your allowed to save 5%, then chances are your going to be able to make it through the bumps in the chapter 13 road. I wouldn't even mind it if they collected that 5% and put it in a savings account through them that you could apply for the funds in the event of an emergency. If you didn't need them for the emergency when you completed the bk, you got the cash.

[anonymuse]

It's not right that it is not consistent; however, I think some allow you to contribute the amount that your employer matches so that you can maximize that benefit that is due to you as part of your employment.

[danas15146]

We were not told that we had to decrease our 401k at all (DH & I both do about 7% because companies match). We were told that the money we contribute was not an allowable expense however and would be considered "disposable" income. So if we could cut things elsewhere to continue the contributions fine. If not - we would have to decrease. Most likely we will be going down to between 2 & 3% so that we have the extra money for now to cover living expenses.

[aa06a47]

It's not right that it is not consistent; however, I think some allow you to contribute the amount that your employer matches so that you can maximize that benefit that is due to you as part of your employment.

I read that as well, that some will allow contributions if the employeer matches. In my opinion, that rational by trustees and judges is horse crap. The guy that doesn't get a match needs to save money just as much as a person who doesn't get a match. If fact, I would argue that the person who gets no match is in much more need to start saving before the end of the plan than the person who gets a match.

[aa06a47]

We were not told that we had to decrease our 401k at all (DH & I both do about 7% because companies match). We were told that the money we contribute was not an allowable expense however and would be considered "disposable" income. So if we could cut things elsewhere to continue the contributions fine. If not - we would have to decrease. Most likely we will be going down to between 2 & 3% so that we have the extra money for now to cover living expenses.

I don't really think they care what you spend you money on after confirmation of your plan....whether it is a 401k, or whatever. As long as you can cut other corners to make your plan budget, they probably don't care.

I guess my point is that they should "allow" a certain amount of funds to save, baked into the plan. The plan already causes a person to sacrifice there life style substantially, I don't think you should have to sacrifice additional to save. Doesn't have to be in a 401k, just a regular savings account.

Congress needs to use common sence and figure out why most chapter 13 bk fail. I know the next 24 months will be the toughtest. I figure it will take me that long to try and save enough to handle most emergency things, so I pray no emergency things happen in the next 24 months.

We should probably start another thread on this topic.

[anonymuse]

I read that as well, that some will allow contributions if the employeer matches. In my opinion, that rational by trustees and judges is horse crap. The guy that doesn't get a match needs to save money just as much as a person who doesn't get a match. If fact, I would argue that the person who gets no match is in much more need to start saving before the end of the plan than the person who gets a match.

I'm not saying I agree with it--it's just that's what I think the rationale behind it is.

However, if someone wants to change their own oil, cut the kids hair yourself, eat top ramen 4 weeks a month, go without air conditioning, cable, internet, or whatever else they can do without that was originally put as expenses in a normal reasonable plan and save that money instead to put in a 401K plan, then more power to them.

I believe it still has to be a tradeoff between some of the non-essential expenses in your plan. I would **think** that if a trustee saw 3% going into a 401K plan, then the scrutinizing would begin and some bartering to take place to eliminate other less necessary expenses would begin.

[anonymuse]

I don't really think they care what you spend you money on after confirmation of your plan....whether it is a 401k, or whatever. As long as you can cut other corners to make your plan budget, they probably don't care.

I guess my point is that they should "allow" a certain amount of funds to save, baked into the plan. The plan already causes a person to sacrifice there life style substantially, I don't think you should have to sacrifice additional to save. Doesn't have to be in a 401k, just a regular savings account.

Congress needs to use common sence and figure out why most chapter 13 bk fail. I know the next 24 months will be the toughtest. I figure it will take me that long to try and save enough to handle most emergency things, so I pray no emergency things happen in the next 24 months.

We should probably start another thread on this topic.

I think there should be some kind of "forced savings" in the plan also; however, the money would go into an account that you could not touch without the trustee's approval. Then, if an emergency expenses arose, there would be a safety net. Then, at the successful conclusion of the plan, you'd get a little check to start off you're new financial life with. (A little utopian, I know; but after what the congress came up with for the new laws, I think we're more grounded in reality here.)

[aa06a47]

I'm not saying I agree with it--it's just that's what I think the rationale behind it is.

However, if someone wants to change their own oil, cut the kids hair yourself, eat top ramen 4 weeks a month, go without air conditioning, cable, internet, or whatever else they can do without that was originally put as expenses in a normal reasonable plan and save that money instead to put in a 401K plan, then more power to them.

I believe it still has to be a tradeoff between some of the non-essential expenses in your plan. I would **think** that if a trustee saw 3% going into a 401K plan, then the scrutinizing would begin and some bartering to take place to eliminate other less necessary expenses would begin.

anonymuse, I wasn't being critical of you, hope you didn't take it that way, I just don't believe in the rationale behind them saying matching contributions are ok, non matching is not. That is discrimination in my opinion.

Maybe my 401k contributions is why my trustee didn't like my cable bill? Hell, I don't know. My attorney didn't say that was it though. Yes, I agree, sacfice if a must in the chapter 13 world. I really think they should give people plans that allow 13's a similiar fresh start as 7's. Pay, but have a chance to live. A Chapter 13 stifles desire to make more money...you know it will end up in the trustee's pockets. I'll get off my soap box. Time to go grind the concrete for 10 hours.

[anonymuse]

AA, I didn't take it that way. Just commenting that I agree with you.

This 401K thing is just a matter of how things go down on paper versus what happens in the real world.

As long as you pay the trustee first, keep all your bills current, and don't apply for credit, the trustee couldn't care less how you spend the rest of the money in your plan. They're not going to come down on you since you decided to go to the ice cream parlor every day for a scoop of chocolate instead of spending it on this months clothing allowance. Sounds like a trivial example, but it applies--if someone decides to make their own clothes, crafts their own gifts, starts taking the bus or carpooling, and other things they cutback in on their original plan, then the trustee can't say squat about how they spend (or save) that money.

[aa06a47]

Another Motion to Deny Confirmation

All the promises if this was changed, and that was changed, I would be confirmed (monday) now the trustee has another motion to deny confirmation. What a pain in the butt. I'm about to go physco.

WHat's wrong this time.....this is what it says.."The trustee is pursuing possible preference payments. The plan needs to specifiy that any preference recovery made by the trustee will be added to the POT amount".

I'm hoping this is a clerical thing. I sometimes feel like I'm going to go postal.

[aa06a47]

Screwing around in Pacer

Well, out of curiosity, I pulled up Pacer this morning to see the progress of several Chapter 13 cases filed the same date that mine was filed. I was trying to see if my case was the only one that has not been confirmed. I limited my examination to 10 cases since it cost 0.08/case (1 page summary sheet). Of the 10 cases I randomly pulled, there was only 1 case that was confirmed, and it was confirmed yesterday. I only pulled above med income cases. My trustee appears to have his finger stuck on the "motion to deny" button on his computer. 6 of the 10 had at least 3 motions to deny, the other 3 had 2 motions to deny.

One case had a couple of motions to deny, and then the 3rd motion to deny was because the person had not paid anything in month 2.

So, while I'm crying the blues, guess I'm in the same boat as most others. Since my 10 case pull was random, I would assume the 50 cases I didn't look at would have similiar results. Of course, since I only reviewed above med income cases that could skew things a little. I'm sure the below med cases went through with the trustee a little less pickey?

[Minnymouth]

Yes, I would say you have a "very picky" Trustee who likes to get cases dismissed and denied.... for one reason or another..... He still gets paid in the long run, so he really doesn't care.....

Just hang in there, he'll probably take the payments you made to the cc companies that he thinks are prefence payments and distribute to the other creditors......

Hang in there, and I hope you get confirmed soon and get this phase over with............

Good luck, Keep us posted,

[aa06a47]

Yeah, I didn't know it at the time, but one of the members of the forum PM'd me and asked me if my trustee was.... That was bizarr, guess this guy has a reputation outside of the state I live in...unbelieveable.

Well, my attorney e-mailed me and said she got an e-mail from the trustee assistant who has been working on my case saying everything is now in order, and I should get confirmed this week. I think this is the 3rd time now I've heard that, so won't believe it until I see it.