HELP!!! CC objecting to 341 meeting

[sophie]

Okay. We get a letter today saying that one of our CC's is threatening us cause we took out a cash advance in February. They're saying if we pay now they'll take off $2000. Anyway, the letter is from my lawyers office with no explanation from my lawyer. STILL can't get through to him btw. Freaking out! Does anyone know what this means? I know that they have 60days from the time of our 341 meeting to object but what exactly does object mean? What can they do to us?

[HHM]

When did you file for BK?

[sophie]

July. PLEASE tell me what object means. What can happen to me?

[SinkingFast]

Creditors have 60 days from the date of the 341 to Object to Discharge of your Debts with them. Evidently this particular Creditor is objecting to this particular Cash Advance. Meaning if their case against you holds, this particular debt would not be discharged by your BK.

Since you took the Cash Advance in February, and filed BK in July, you were well beyond the 70/90 days time frame that the Law prescribes. The burden of proof that you took the cash advance fraudulently, without intent to repay, will fall squarely on the Creditor.

Just curious,........... But how big a Cash Advance are we talking here?? When exactly did it occur and when did you file BK.

Depending on the variables involved, your attny may just tell them to go take a hike, or he/she may have to haggle a bit. You may or may not wind up having to agree to pay something to this Creditor to get rid of them.

[HHM]

To answer your first question...

The objection they are referring too is an "Objection to Discharge". Specifically, assuming the CC has grounds to do so, they can file an Objection to Discharge, OF THEIR DEBT. If the court grants the objection, then you will still be liable to pay back that CC. If the court denies the objection, then the debt is discharged.

The CC seems to be a little outside the default window (70 days) that cash advances are nondischargeable, (i.e. if you take out a cash advance with 70days before filing BK, it cannot be discharged). However, since they are outside the 70 days, the CC is likely to claim you obtained the cash advance under false pretenses (i.e. you knew you were in financial trouble and had not intention or ability of paying it back).

You will need to talk to your BK attorney to see if he/she thinks creditor has a chance of succeeding (note, that defending you in Objections to Discharge is typically outside the scope of a BK attorney's representation, so don't be too surprised your attorney is reluctant).

What did you use the cash advance for?

[mystery]

July. PLEASE tell me what object means. What can happen to me?

All objection means is "Disagree". The only thing they can do is make an objection to the trustee, which in turn makes a motion to the judge, that they want to be removed from the bankruptcy petition. In other words, the worst case is that you wouldn't be able to be free from the debt of this one particular credit card company. The worse case, you work a payment plan out with them. The rest of your bankruptcy goes forward as scheduled.

[sophie]

All of the cash advances I have taken were just to get lower interest rates. I played the tag game with cc's for years. I haven't actually "used" the cards for purchases for quite some time (years). Just transferring one card to another. I did it a few times since February. The last one was less than a month before I filed. I had no idea I was going to file. Didn't even think about it at that point. But all of them were just to pay off the cc's.

[9877donna]

Sophie,So sorry this is happening to you.
If the Credit Card company that is objecting to discharge is the one that you transferred a balance to less than 90 days before you filed BK then they probably have a case for that objection.
Did you inform your lawyer of these 'transfers' so close to your filing BK?
If your lawyer knew about it he should have advised you to wait to file.
Good Luck.
Donna

[HHM]

Since this was a cash advance to payoff another card, the time limits really don't matter (side note, the 70/90 days means that the charges are "presumed" to be fraudulent if the carges were made within those deadlines, after those deadlines expire, the CC can still object, but as has already been pointed out, the CC company will have to prove their case, which incidentally, is not that hard to do), you have some problems. Typically what happens, is that you can negotiate a lower amount (looks like they are already offering to reduce it by $2,000) and you enter into a payment plan to pay it back, typically 6 to 12 months, but it can go to 18 months.

Shoot for a 50% discount.

Basically, you have room to negotiate because the CC company would rather not have to spend the time to have a hearing on the objection.

However, talk this all over with your attorney.

[sophie]

Thanks everyone. My lawyer did know all about everything and did not advise me to wait. Guess I should expect quite a few objections now. If a few cc's object will I get thrown into a 13?

[9877donna]

Sophie,I am sorry that your lawyer did not inform you that you needed to put a certain amount of time between your last transfer and the date you file BK.
The cc's that object to discharge are probably going to be the only one's that will be non-dischargable.The rest will be discharged.
No you will not get thrown into a Chapter 13.
Good Luck to you.
Donna

[SinkingFast]

Thanks everyone. My lawyer did know all about everything and did not advise me to wait. Guess I should expect quite a few objections now. If a few cc's object will I get thrown into a 13?

I'm rather surprised your attny did not advise you to wait to file.

We had "living expenses" type charges and one Convenience Check used to pay a car payment. Less than $300 on the Convenience Check. Attnys told us to wait to be on the safe side.

Under Old Law, they would have gone forward without hesitation. Worst that would have happened, they said, is we would have had to pay a few hundred $$'s back to a couple of Creditors. New Law changed everything. Made all the attnys we talked to gun shy. No one would file until the 70/90 days had passed.

I sincerely hope this is the one and only Creditor with just the one Objection you have coming.

Maybe as HHM suggested, they will negotiate down some more and give you an easy amount to pay over a year or so.

[CAB_44]

after you made this transfer Sophie~ (that's such a cute name btw)
did you continue to pay on the CC that you did the cash transfer from??
If so, then it is unlikely that the trustee would see it as fraud...

[miss puff]

Oh good point Cab. That may be true-not sure though. Sorry your going through this Sophie. I don't have any sound advice, just know I am thinking of you and hope this doesn't "hurt" you to bad financially. Good luck

[HHM]

after you made this transfer Sophie~ (that's such a cute name btw)
did you continue to pay on the CC that you did the cash transfer from??
If so, then it is unlikely that the trustee would see it as fraud...

However, in this case, it doesn't matter what the trustee thinks...this issue is between the creditor and debtor...its the bankruptcy court judge that decides the issue. Without full details, no one here can really give you a solid recommendation...you will ultimately have to get with you BK attorney to figure this out...but you should be prepared for bad news (from my experience), since you used the cash advance to pay another credit card, that is text book BK fraud (not fraud as Enron fraud, we know you didn't mean to commit fraud, but whether you did this act malice is unimportant).