I just knew we'd have problems! :)

[yomama]

I'm shaking right now and half crying. My husband and I each got papers in the mail today from the Bankruptcy Court. The first paper is titled "Notice of Deficiency Filing" and has a check in the box in front of "Certification of Credit Counseling in accordance with Section 109(h)(1) of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. (NOT TO BE confused with EXHIBIT D, INDIVIDUAL DEBTOR'S STATEMENT OF COMPLIANCE WITH CREDIT COUNSELING REQUIREMENT.) Prior notice advised that said Certification was due immediately." Then below that it says, "Notice is hereby given that failure to file that failure to file the above indicated item(s) within 7 days from the date of this notice will result in the dismissal of this petition.

This just can't be, how could this happen??!! We didn't pay all that money to the lawyer just to have this all dismissed and we're back to square one!!!!!!! Oh help, I don't know what to do! We did the credit counseling online and my husband printed out a copy of the certificate and gave it the lawyer that we hired to handle our case, who, by the way, I'm fast losing faith in! The lawyer did online filing, so if the court was to get the actual certificate, how would they get it? Were we supposed to send it to them somehow? Was our lawyer supposed to do something that he didn't do? I don't see how you can get something like that to them online but would have to mail in through the post office.

Another paper has a bunch of stuff listed (sort of like a catch all type of paper for different instances) of possible things that people would have to send in that they didn't. There are boxes in front of items that need to be sent to the court. The one is checked in front of the Certificate of Credit Counseling, and the other one is checked in front of "Copy of employee income records (payment advices) received from employer within 60 days before filing. (Individual cases only) (Social Security Number should be redacted).) Due within fifteen (15) days of initial petition filing.

First question I have is what the heck does "redacted" mean? I never heard of that word before. My husband already gave all of that information to the lawyer (his paystubs). So what was the lawyer supposed to do with them? Is he not doing what he's supposed to be doing?? I'm getting the idea that we just blew a thousand dollars. I'm starting to panic now because these papers were dated Nov. 8 and we just got them today, the 13th! So now we're expected to have this information back to the pronto or else the whole case will be dismissed! We didn't fo get our mail until the lawyer's office was already closed, so tomorrow is the 14th and how in the world are they going to get this information within 7 days, which would be the 15th??!! OMG, I can't believe things are going wrong so soon! We just can't have this case dismissed. We can't pay the credit cards. HELP! I don't know what to do. My husband did call the lawyer's office just awhile ago, but I can't imagine them getting back to us before tomorrow. I don't know if I want to trust the lawyer with any more paperwork. What if he says he'll do it and then he does it. We paid him all that money and the court fees, etc, for nothing?! I have a really bad headache. Please tell me I'm worrying for nothing or give me some kind of a solution. Right now neither of us can think straight. We're feeling the whole world is against us from what all has gone on this year and it seems like there's no end to it.

[SinkingFast]

The letter you got in the mail is a printed copy of the Electronic notification your attny got. So your attny should be aware that these docs are needed.

The pre BK Certs should have been filed electronically with the rest of the Schedules and your Petition. Our paystubs aren't posted on PACER, tho. Your attny probably has to mail or messenger them, or however he/she sends things in to the Trustee.

Maybe your attny sends a "mailer" to the Trustee every couple of weeks of all paystubs for filings he/she's submitted??!!

At any rate, your attny should already know these docs are needed. Maybe even has already taken care of the situation. Just a precaution, call your attny's office, tell them about the letter you received, and ask if the docs are being sent.

[yomama]

I MUST be upset. My frown in my title turned out to be a smile, and I'm certainly not smiling here! It's actually a lot worse than I thought! I wasn't aware that there was more on the other side of this one paper of things to get to them. The paper that says "Notice of Incomplete and/or Deficient Filing" has other things checked off besides just the certificate of counseling and that income records. On the back, here's what's checked, all separate lines:
Form B22A, Means Test Form (Chapter 7 Case) due within fifteen days of initial petition filing.

Statement of Financial Affairs (Official Form 7) due within fifteen days of initial petition filing.

Schedules (Official Form 6) Due withint fifteen days of initial petition filing.
Schedule A, Schedule B, Schedule C (indiv.), Schedule D, Schedule E, Schedule F, Schedule G, Schedule H, Schedule I (indiv.), Schedule J (indiv.), Summary of Schedules

Statistical Summary of Certain Liabilities and related data (28 U.S.C. Section 159) (Official Form 6-Statistical Summary) due within fifteen days in initial petition filing.

Heck, I'm wondering just what DID the lawyer file??!! Geez, now what?

[yomama]

The letter you got in the mail is a printed copy of the Electronic notification your attny got. So your attny should be aware that these docs are needed.

The pre BK Certs should have been filed electronically with the rest of the Schedules and your Petition. Our paystubs aren't posted on PACER, tho. Your attny probably has to mail or messenger them, or however he/she sends things in to the Trustee.

Maybe your attny sends a "mailer" to the Trustee every couple of weeks of all paystubs for filings he/she's submitted??!!

At any rate, your attny should already know these docs are needed. Maybe even has already taken care of the situation. Just a precaution, call your attny's office, tell them about the letter you received, and ask if the docs are being sent.

I sure hope he got the same thing we got and is working on it. Now look at all the other things he didn't include, which is making me wonder if he's doing anything. I'm feeling so not good about this whole thing now. We are going to call him tomorrow and I said to my husband even if we call him, what's going to guarantee that he'll then do what he was supposed to do in the first place? We hired a lawyer exactly for this reason, to avoid all this hassle, but look, we're getting it anyway!

[HHM]

When you met with your attorney, what was the date you agreed on to file. What may have happened is that your attorney filed the "bare petition" in order to start the case and get the automatic stay, which is just the first 2 pages of the petition. Everything else can be filed later, 15 days for the schedules and 7 days for the Credit Counseling.

In any event, you should contact your attorney tomorrow and sort it out. But I suspect you are "losing it" over nothing and your petition will be completed before the end of the week.

[yomama]

When you met with your attorney, what was the date you agreed on to file. What may have happened is that your attorney filed the "bare petition" in order to start the case and get the automatic stay, which is just the first 2 pages of the petition. Everything else can be filed later, 15 days for the schedules and 7 days for the Credit Counseling.

In any event, you should contact your attorney tomorrow and sort it out. But I suspect you are "losing it" over nothing and your petition will be completed before the end of the week.

Well, we didn't really agree on a certain date. He didn't ask us what day he should file, just said that he would within the next couple of days, so he would have done that about this past Monday. He had mentioned something earlier about filing some for part of it to get certain things in and we could always get the rest in later. Do you think then that's what it's all about?? Geez, if that's all it is, I think I reacted too quickly (I'm known for doing that with things, not that I mean to). Yes, we will definitely contact him about this just to make sure that's what it's about. Thank you so much for reassuring me! I really do feel better already.

[HHM]

I suspect it is not a big deal...although it is a little bad form for the attorney. Typically, when an attorney just files the "bare petition" it is known as an emergency petition because it is used when something must be stopped, (i.e. the foreclosure sale on the house is tomorrow, or wage garnishment just hit and must be stopped).

It is not that common to file an incomplete petition when there is no need to. But nevertheless, just make a calm call to the attorney and make sure that you filing is on track and try to get them to agree to have the remainder of the petition filed no later than Friday.

[yomama]

I suspect it is not a big deal...although it is a little bad form for the attorney. Typically, when an attorney just files the "bare petition" it is known as an emergency petition because it is used when something must be stopped, (i.e. the foreclosure sale on the house is tomorrow, or wage garnishment just hit and must be stopped).

It is not that common to file an incomplete petition when there is no need to. But nevertheless, just make a calm call to the attorney and make sure that you filing is on track and try to get them to agree to have the remainder of the petition filed no later than Friday.

I'm hoping you're right and it's not a big deal. There was really no emergency here. Nobody is suing us, and we don't own a home, so no threat of foreclosure. I think he just knew we wanted it done soon and maybe did go ahead and filed part of it first and then the other part later or will. We'll call him tomorrow to make sure everything is the way it should be. I guess though he'd have to make sure that the credit counseling certificate gets to the court by Wednesday, and some of those other things (or maybe most) have to be done very shortly also, but maybe not quite as soon, I don't know. I actually don't know when he would have done that initial filing. So is that or isn't it considered to be the date of filing?

[HHM]

If you have a PACER account, you can go online and see when the petition was filed. Also, the letter you received might mention the filing date. Since you got a letter in the mail, your attorney must have filed no later than Wednesday or Thursday of last week.

I hope its not a big deal.

[SinkingFast]

Yomama,..........

Our attny files all petitions that way. Emergency or not.

Evidently there was a technical glitch with the ECF here once that caused several BK's to be immediately dismissed because the signature pages did not go thru. The problem was with the computer on the Court's end, but it took a bit of doing to get it all straightened out. Several attnys and more than a few clients cases were impacted.

As our paralegal explained it to us, the Petition and the Signature page HAVE to go thru together. The Schedules and such can be resubmitted if there's a glitch. So our attny files the Petitions and Signature Pages first, then submits the Schedules later.

[Bobby'sGirl]

One of them was mine...

Yomama,..........

Our attny files all petitions that way. Emergency or not.

Evidently there was a technical glitch with the ECF here once that caused several BK's to be immediately dismissed because the signature pages did not go thru. The problem was with the computer on the Court's end, but it took a bit of doing to get it all straightened out. Several attnys and more than a few clients cases were impacted.As our paralegal explained it to us, the Petition and the Signature page HAVE to go thru together. The Schedules and such can be resubmitted if there's a glitch. So our attny files the Petitions and Signature Pages first, then submits the Schedules later.

As Sinking Fast referred to above, my first filing on Oct. 3 was tossed because everything went through but not the signature page. Happened on all three of the cases my attorney filed that afternoon. The court computer only accepted a certain number of pages and then stopped. Court said "automatic striking of case, must be refiled with no signature page," but at least not considered dismissed and filing fee refunded and could be all done again. But it took almost a month for the court to officially clear everything, so only got refiled last Friday.

[yomama]

If you have a PACER account, you can go online and see when the petition was filed. Also, the letter you received might mention the filing date. Since you got a letter in the mail, your attorney must have filed no later than Wednesday or Thursday of last week.

I hope its not a big deal.

I don't have a PACER account. It's not absolutely required that a person gets one, is it? I probably would worry even more knowing me. lol Nope, I didn't notice any filing date on the papers we got in the mail today.

[yomama]

Yomama,..........

Our attny files all petitions that way. Emergency or not.

Evidently there was a technical glitch with the ECF here once that caused several BK's to be immediately dismissed because the signature pages did not go thru. The problem was with the computer on the Court's end, but it took a bit of doing to get it all straightened out. Several attnys and more than a few clients cases were impacted.

As our paralegal explained it to us, the Petition and the Signature page HAVE to go thru together. The Schedules and such can be resubmitted if there's a glitch. So our attny files the Petitions and Signature Pages first, then submits the Schedules later.

Oh okay, then I guess it's nothing unusual that our attorney might have filed ours that way then either. That's too bad about that glitch that happened there. I know that things go wrong now and then. It's just a shame that people are caused problems because of it and needless worry. It's good it got straightened out. Just what is the signature page? We didn't actually have to physically sign something, did we? Our attorney never got our signatures on anything. I heard of electronic signatures but am not quite sure of the meaning. Does that mean that he just types our name and it acts as our signature? I sure hope we didn't have to sign anything and it's not done. He never even mentioned that at all.

[yomama]

As Sinking Fast referred to above, my first filing on Oct. 3 was tossed because everything went through but not the signature page. Happened on all three of the cases my attorney filed that afternoon. The court computer only accepted a certain number of pages and then stopped. Court said "automatic striking of case, must be refiled with no signature page," but at least not considered dismissed and filing fee refunded and could be all done again. But it took almost a month for the court to officially clear everything, so only got refiled last Friday.

Gosh, that would have been upsetting to have it get tossed because of that one page. That's good it wasn't considered dismissed or I'd have been upset and then some. If it's not the fault of the debtor, I don't think it should be dismissed. Still, I'm sure you weren't happy to have to have it done all over again. I hope your attorney didn't charge you more, did he, since it wasn't through any fault of your own? I sure your case goes more smoothly than it started out. We're calling our attorney tomorrow just to make sure that this is just a technicality and we don't have anything to worry about.