A CHILLING discovery-for EVERYONE

[DeadManCrawling]

I wish it WAS garbage. I doubt the SEC would issue a "stunt" publication that describes auditing techniques to use on Credit Card banks and collections agents' neural modeling programs just for the hell of it.

I suppose it is inlikely the 8 buck an hour employee has this stuff onscreen, but it is certain that SOMEONE has it, in the bank. Even if it's an automated computer system that "feeds" the phone collector with the "right" questions and demands.

Every so often I get calls from a collections company who asks ME to go knock on a neighbor's door and demand to know why they won't answer. Someone took the time to find me (a neighbor) and try to embarass this poor soul with this idea.

Look at this:

http://www.talgentra.com/content/Using%20Predictive%20Modelling.pdf?dltitle=Using+Predictive+Modelling.pdf

An excerpt from the above:



You think debt collectors just STOPPED using the technology 15 years ago, instead of marching on with the times? I doubt it.

Here's more:

http://www.singaporegateway.com/products/nfga/intronn.htm

These are fromt he companies who develop and sell these programs. The above link is for a company that apparently helped CHASE re-launch their collections dept in the 90's. It is not easy reading, but it is fascinating.

Here is one last one-a company that looks to be on the cutting edge of developing current programs that will mine data and exploit it for CC companies, banks, whatever.

http://www.xore.com/

dmc

[tradewiz50]

I wish it WAS garbage.

It is garbage.

I suppose it is inlikely the 8 buck an hour employee has this stuff onscreen, but it is certain that SOMEONE has it, in the bank. Even if it's an automated computer system that "feeds" the phone collector with the "right" questions and demands.

The third party collectors I know make anywhere from $12.00 to $18.00 an hour.

Every so often I get calls from a collections company who asks ME to go knock on a neighbor's door and demand to know why they won't answer. Someone took the time to find me (a neighbor) and try to embarass this poor soul with this idea.

This is called skip tracing. Good Lord man take off your tin foil hat.

dmc

Take it from one that has been in that industry over a decade. Your way off your rocker on this buddy. What your draw your conclusions from are all internet links. I guess you beleive in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy also? Please, see a certified therapist at your most earliest conveinence.

[DeadManCrawling]

Take it from one that has been in that industry over a decade.

That explains it all. Thanks. What I mean is- That's like saying you live in Washington D.C. Therefore you are an expert on government affairs and policies. The credit industry is vast, with gigantic resources, perhaps more than any government, if you factor in the value of publicly traded companies like MBNA Chase, etc. I am not calling this some crazy conspiracy theory.

Far from it. It is, in their eyes, a legitimate and effective way of collecting money. It is also legal. My real point is to alert people that is is going on, it is legal, and it won't be going away.

The links I reference are all government and credit industry providers. These are real companies, making real profits, with these very real products.

Here is perhaps the most interesting item so far, this one from Northern Arizona University's research department for data extraction and usage. It is from 98' I believe, but explains things rather simply, and in fact, notes WHICH exact programs are being used and their effectiveness for companies like MBNA Chase and Advanta.

http://www.insight.nau.edu/downloads/DM%20Perspective%20v2.pdf

I have spent weeks reading the SEC filings of many major companies, including CITI, CHASE, MBNA, Advanta and others. The practice of descriptive and physical modeling, using these processes is certainly not a secret. They report their use and effectiveness in company reports, for one thing.


DMC

[DeadManCrawling]

A couple other thoughts:

I looked up FICO's government filings with the SEC and read through their company reports, which confirm that they will begin using ever-larger data sets and trolling for more and more detailed information to "model" your behavior before it happens. Indeed it is real. You can view the link to the government file and the story here:

http://www.bankruptcyforum.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=14040

Additionally FICO purchased a company called HNC, which is a major player in neural network modeling and predictive algorithms for exactly this purpose.

that storyis here: http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020503S0014

Finally, I am going to purchase this book that delves into the matter completely, from the perspective of creditors like mortgage companies, CC companies and so forth. It is a complex subject, but if you want to see it, it is here:

http://www.amazon.com/Neural-Networks-Finance-Predictive-Academic/dp/0124859674

Book Description
This book explores the intuitive appeal of neural networks and the genetic algorithm in finance. It demonstrates how neural networks used in combination with evolutionary computation outperform classical econometric methods for accuracy in forecasting, classification and dimensionality reduction.

McNelis utilizes a variety of examples, from forecasting automobile production and corporate bond spread, to inflation and deflation processes in Hong Kong and Japan, to credit card default in Germany to bank failures in Texas, to cap-floor volatilities in New York and Hong Kong.

The book was reviewed and endorsed by:

This book clarifies many of the mysteries of Neural Networks and related optimization techniques for researchers in both economics and finance. It contains many practical examples backed up with computer programs for readers to explore. I recommend it to anyone who wants to understand methods used in nonlinear forecasting."
-- Blake LeBaron, Professor of Finance, Brandeis University

"An important addition to the select collection of books on financial econometrics, Paul Mcnelis' volume, Neural Networks in Finance, serves as an important reference on neural network models of nonlinear dynamics as a practical econometric tool for better decision-making in financial markets."
-- Roberto S. Mariano, Dean of School of Economics and Social Sciences & Vice-Provost for Research, Singapore Management University; Professor Emeritus of Economics, University of Pennsylvania

"This book represents an impressive step forward in the exposition and application of evolutionary computational tools. The author illustrates the potency of evolutionary computational tools through multiple examples, which contrast the predictive outcomes from the evolutionary approach with others of a linear and general non-linear variety. The book will be of utmost appeal to both academics throughout the social sciences as well as practitioners, especially in the area of finance."
-- Carlos Asilis, Portfolio Manager, VegaPlus Capital Partners; formerly Chief Investment Strategist, JPMorgan Chase

"...an excellent, easy-to read introduction to the math behind neural networks."
- Financial Engineering News


Looks pretty compelling to me. Will let you know what I can digest of this. It couldbe vital now or in the future in so many ways.

DMC