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    Vehicle in Brother's Possession

    I have a major problem. I was talking to my brother today about our upcoming meeting with the attorney for bankruptcy. Later, my brother called to remind me that we never had gotten the title changed on the truck he bought from me 2 years ago! Actually, what happened is I just let him finish making the payments. He had his own credit problems. Anyway, after the last payment to the credit union in January, we never got the title changed. In fact, I think I would still have to go to the credit union and get them removed from the title as a leinholder since they're no longer a leinholder.

    The problem is, now it's going to look like I'm transferring an asset to my brother. I am so mad about this. This is pure stupidity on my part. But after he took over the payments and paid it off, I totally forgot about the title stuff. Now, he has insurance records that he has paid insurance for the last two years, but the title and the plates were always -- and continue to this day -- in my name.

    Is there ANYTHING I can do about this? I mean, my brother would sign an affidavit to these facts. But even I could understand a trustee saying no way! He does have a check copy from a check he wrote to me in January for $3,200 so I could pay off one credit card (to be able to then use that same credit card for an access check with a lower interest payment.) Then, two weeks later, I paid him back the difference between the $3,200 and what was left on the truck, and then paid the truck off. So there is SOME paper trail to all this.

    I'm so depressed. The value of the truck would be around $6,500. We have one van lease and a scooter/moped. So now it LOOKS like we have three vehicles.

    Anybody have any idea what might happen or what I can do? Can I pay the difference in what I'm allowed to keep and that $6,500? I really need chapter 7 rather than 13.

    Rick
    11/29/2007 - Filed Ch 7
    01/08/2008 - 341 Hearing
    03/12/2008 - Discharged
    03/21/2008 - Closed

    #2
    A few options

    1. Assuming worst case scenario and the trustee and court said the truck was part of the BK estate, could you exempt it?

    2. You seem to have a good paper trail...Proof of insurance and the fact that your brother paid it. Moreover, your brother can probably get a hold of the cancelled checks that show he made the payments to the finance co. (although, doing so will cost a little bit of money).

    3. When you file BK, DO NOT LIST THE TRUCK on your schedule of ASSETS. There is no reason too, and trustee's don't check DMV records.

    I think you will be fine. Don't list the truck in your schedule of assets and at least get the paper trail some what prepared; namely, make sure you get the proof that your brother maintained insurance on the car (i.e. old policies and cancelled checks to the insurance company).

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks, HHM.

      You've reassured me. Now, one question. If I don't list it, should I even mention it to the attorney? Or am I better off just playing dumb should this ever come up, since I really hadn't thought of it.

      By the way, I understand completely these are just opinions. That's all I'm looking for.

      Thanks,
      Rick
      11/29/2007 - Filed Ch 7
      01/08/2008 - 341 Hearing
      03/12/2008 - Discharged
      03/21/2008 - Closed

      Comment


        #4
        which district in Michigan are you in? I am in the Eastern district. I would run the scenario by your attorney and then do what he says. You don't want to get caught with your pants down. Some of the trustees in Michigan run searches to check for stuff like this. Sooo, tell your attorney the entire truth and then he can defend you from there. If he knows your assigned trustee and his methods, then he can advise as to whether or not this trustee could be a real pain.

        Comment


          #5
          Rick, I'd go with HHM's recommendation. Bottom line, the truck is NOT yours, you have plenty of paper documentation showing that he paid you for it, he made payments on it, etc. As long as the truck is not on your property (why would it be, right?), it is not yours.

          If anyone finds out about it, you have the proof, so it is not like you are hiding assets.

          One thing, though, do NOT transfer the asset now. Wait until after your discharge - hopefully will only be a few months now.
          Filed Business Chapter 7: 7/11/07
          341 Meeting: 8/8/07 Asset Case
          US Trustee reviewed case/resolved 9/14/07
          Discharged: 10/11/07 Closed: 11/2/08

          Comment


            #6
            Did you sign the title when you sold him the truck? If you signed and dated the title back when you sold him the truck, I think that's all you have to do. It would be his responsibility to go to the Sec. of State and register it.
            I also agree not to list the truck as an asset. Don't volunteer information but be truthful if asked. I think that you'll be OK since you have proof that you sold it to your brother years ago.
            Filed Chapter 7 pro se- 7/24/07
            341 Meeting - 9/13/07 Done!
            Last day for objections - 11/12/07
            Discharged!!!! -11/26/07

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by HHM View Post

              3. When you file BK, DO NOT LIST THE TRUCK on your schedule of ASSETS. There is no reason too, and trustee's don't check DMV records.
              Mine checked. I know because she asked about a trailer we had registered and I pointed it out in the schedules as the listed tent camper.

              However, an experienced BK lawyer would know if that is the norm in your district or not.
              Filed: 10/26/2006
              Discharged: 03/05/2007
              Closed: 5/19/2008 - Asset case due to balance transfer and income tax refund

              Comment


                #8
                Thank you all for your advice. It's definitely not on my property and hasn't been for about two years. He does have a paper trail as far as the insurance and some of the payments. However, some of the payments he paid cash on right at the credit union.

                Also, someone asked if I signed the title over when he purchased the truck. No, because he just started making the payments on it. The title is still in my desk, but the credit union is listed, too, because I never went in to have them sign off on it.

                I'm thinking along the lines that some of you others are. It isn't my asset. It hasn't been in two years. I can be completely honest if ever asked about it because it is the honest truth, and I think there's sufficient proof to show this to be the case. We'll just wait to officially transfer the title until after this is all over.

                I am in the Eastern District of Michigan, by the way, rockinggramma. Have you completed your bankruptcy? Did it go okay here in Eastern District?

                Rick
                11/29/2007 - Filed Ch 7
                01/08/2008 - 341 Hearing
                03/12/2008 - Discharged
                03/21/2008 - Closed

                Comment

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