Timetable from Dummies book question

[PaKettle]

In the Bankruptcy for Dummies book there is a timetable that has some things I am unclear about. Hoping someone could enlighten me on this:

I'm skipping the first steps: filing, notifying creditors, court sends notice to you, tax returns sent to trustee, etc...

From the book:
"9. 30 days after 341 meeting - last day to object to exemptions."
- Which exemptions and whose objections?

"10. Sixty days after 341 meeting is deadline for claiming some debts not discharged and discharge should be denied or case should be dismissed for flunking the Means Test."
- Doesn't the Trustee have to notify you within 10 days of the 341 if you passed the Means Test or not?

"11. Discharge Hearing"
-What is this? I thought after 60 days you were DONE, no more hearings...?

12. "Discharge usually entered about 60 days after 341 meeting".
-Discharge entered? I thought it was entered AT or BEFORE 60 days, not "about 60 days"...

And this is the one that really confuses me:
"13. 120 days after the 341 meeting last day for proof of claim to be filed on behalf of creditor you want paid. (180 days from petition date for governmental creditors)"
-What are they talking about here?

"14. If any creditor or the trustee so requests you must file with the bankruptcy court all fedreral income tax returns that come due or are filed while your bankruptcy case is opened."
- So they mean that if you file in between the time you file Ch. 7 and the time you get discharged right? In that case, why wouldn't someone just file for an extension and wait til after they were discharged?
-In any case, my attorney here in CA (I am guessing this must be a CA thing or just my district?) said that there is no way they will take my tax return. I asked twice and he said, no, they don't do that here.

"15. Complete course on financial management"
-But you can do this even before your 341 if you want, right?
As soon as you file, no?

"16. Closing of no-asset case".
-It doesn't give a time, here on this one. Why does the case stay open after the 60 days? and how long does it usually take to close in a no asset case?

Thanks. Maybe this will help others to understand the timeline, too.

p.s. A note re taxes. When I went to pay my attorney and sign the contract I brought only my 2006 taxes because the Dummies book said that is all that is required. However, he said that 2005 was required as well. He said that MANY things vary by state, and many vary by District as well. So if you are filing Pro se, do not take the Dummies book as gospel! Check with someone in your district!

[Boscoe]

From the book:
"9. 30 days after 341 meeting - last day to object to exemptions."
- Which exemptions and whose objections?
Your bk exemptions (Fed or State), i.e. house, cars, household furnishings, jewelry, etc. Any creditor or trustee can object. Usually would only happen if the value you listed on your petition was not reasonable, i.e. $1k for a 2006 vehicle, lowball estimate of houst value, etc.
"10. Sixty days after 341 meeting is deadline for claiming some debts not discharged and discharge should be denied or case should be dismissed for flunking the Means Test."
- Doesn't the Trustee have to notify you within 10 days of the 341 if you passed the Means Test or not? I believe this is true. The 60 days is the last day for objections for any creditors who want to challenge the discharge of your debts. Not usually done either, unless you made a big purchase within 90 days of filing or a cash advance or purchase made in last 6 months and no payments were ever made. Even then, they may not object. But 60 days is the deadline.

"11. Discharge Hearing"
-What is this? I thought after 60 days you were DONE, no more hearings...? This may be a formality - you don't need to do anything.

12. "Discharge usually entered about 60 days after 341 meeting".
-Discharge entered? I thought it was entered AT or BEFORE 60 days, not "about 60 days"... No, not entered until 60 days or within a few days later. The 60 day period for objections must pass before any discharge can be entered.

And this is the one that really confuses me:
"13. 120 days after the 341 meeting last day for proof of claim to be filed on behalf of creditor you want paid. (180 days from petition date for governmental creditors)"
-What are they talking about here? If you have any assets that you cannot exempt, you are considered an asset case. Then the trustee must request that creditors submit a proof of claim by this deadline. If they do not do so, they get nothing. Most cases are "no assets" so this is not relevant and your case would close about the same time as your discharge.

"14. If any creditor or the trustee so requests you must file with the bankruptcy court all fedreral income tax returns that come due or are filed while your bankruptcy case is opened."
- So they mean that if you file in between the time you file Ch. 7 and the time you get discharged right? In that case, why wouldn't someone just file for an extension and wait til after they were discharged?
-In any case, my attorney here in CA (I am guessing this must be a CA thing or just my district?) said that there is no way they will take my tax return. I asked twice and he said, no, they don't do that here. While the case is open, the trustee can ask for any tax returns, as they may want to take any tax refund to remit to the creditors. As your attorney says, not everyone does this.

"15. Complete course on financial management"
-But you can do this even before your 341 if you want, right?
As soon as you file, no? Some people say wait until the 341 is done, others say anytime after you file. You need to have a case number before you do it, and it MUST be done within 45 days of the 341 or you don't get discharged.

"16. Closing of no-asset case".
-It doesn't give a time, here on this one. Why does the case stay open after the 60 days? and how long does it usually take to close in a no asset case? No assets usually close within a week of the discharge.

Thanks. Maybe this will help others to understand the timeline, too.

p.s. A note re taxes. When I went to pay my attorney and sign the contract I brought only my 2006 taxes because the Dummies book said that is all that is required. However, he said that 2005 was required as well. He said that MANY things vary by state, and many vary by District as well. So if you are filing Pro se, do not take the Dummies book as gospel! Check with someone in your district! My trustee wanted the last 3 years! Maybe some want to see any wild swings in income, up or down.

[PaKettle]

Thanks for the detailed answer! Now I understand it completely! (You'd think the Dummies book would explain a little better to us dummies!!

From the book:
"9. 30 days after 341 meeting - last day to object to exemptions."
- Which exemptions and whose objections?
Your bk exemptions (Fed or State), i.e. house, cars, household furnishings, jewelry, etc. Any creditor or trustee can object. Usually would only happen if the value you listed on your petition was not reasonable, i.e. $1k for a 2006 vehicle, lowball estimate of houst value, etc.
"10. Sixty days after 341 meeting is deadline for claiming some debts not discharged and discharge should be denied or case should be dismissed for flunking the Means Test."
- Doesn't the Trustee have to notify you within 10 days of the 341 if you passed the Means Test or not? I believe this is true. The 60 days is the last day for objections for any creditors who want to challenge the discharge of your debts. Not usually done either, unless you made a big purchase within 90 days of filing or a cash advance or purchase made in last 6 months and no payments were ever made. Even then, they may not object. But 60 days is the deadline.

"11. Discharge Hearing"
-What is this? I thought after 60 days you were DONE, no more hearings...? This may be a formality - you don't need to do anything.

12. "Discharge usually entered about 60 days after 341 meeting".
-Discharge entered? I thought it was entered AT or BEFORE 60 days, not "about 60 days"... No, not entered until 60 days or within a few days later. The 60 day period for objections must pass before any discharge can be entered.

And this is the one that really confuses me:
"13. 120 days after the 341 meeting last day for proof of claim to be filed on behalf of creditor you want paid. (180 days from petition date for governmental creditors)"
-What are they talking about here? If you have any assets that you cannot exempt, you are considered an asset case. Then the trustee must request that creditors submit a proof of claim by this deadline. If they do not do so, they get nothing. Most cases are "no assets" so this is not relevant and your case would close about the same time as your discharge.

"14. If any creditor or the trustee so requests you must file with the bankruptcy court all fedreral income tax returns that come due or are filed while your bankruptcy case is opened."
- So they mean that if you file in between the time you file Ch. 7 and the time you get discharged right? In that case, why wouldn't someone just file for an extension and wait til after they were discharged?
-In any case, my attorney here in CA (I am guessing this must be a CA thing or just my district?) said that there is no way they will take my tax return. I asked twice and he said, no, they don't do that here. While the case is open, the trustee can ask for any tax returns, as they may want to take any tax refund to remit to the creditors. As your attorney says, not everyone does this.

"15. Complete course on financial management"
-But you can do this even before your 341 if you want, right?
As soon as you file, no? Some people say wait until the 341 is done, others say anytime after you file. You need to have a case number before you do it, and it MUST be done within 45 days of the 341 or you don't get discharged.

"16. Closing of no-asset case".
-It doesn't give a time, here on this one. Why does the case stay open after the 60 days? and how long does it usually take to close in a no asset case? No assets usually close within a week of the discharge.

Thanks. Maybe this will help others to understand the timeline, too.

p.s. A note re taxes. When I went to pay my attorney and sign the contract I brought only my 2006 taxes because the Dummies book said that is all that is required. However, he said that 2005 was required as well. He said that MANY things vary by state, and many vary by District as well. So if you are filing Pro se, do not take the Dummies book as gospel! Check with someone in your district! My trustee wanted the last 3 years! Maybe some want to see any wild swings in income, up or down.

[Boscoe]

Makes you wonder if anyone who writes the book actually filed themselves! We know it better than most because we have or are living it!

[Carlysmom]

I am in the process, but our attorney requested the last 4 years of tax returns

[PaKettle]

I am in the process, but our attorney requested the last 4 years of tax returns

It IS interesting, how it varies so much from state to state, and even district to district. I can see the State variations but I can't see why there is such variation among districts within the same state!

The Dummies book says only the most recent tax return is needed, but my attorney wanted to see the last two. However, another attorney my friend went to only wanted to see the last one. So maybe my attorney is just wanting to see the 2nd one for his own preferences. Anyone know how many returns are actually REQUIRED in California?