Support Needed Desperately!

[tallberry]

Thanks, Fresh, actually as a female myself (in a man's professional world), I have a tremendous amount of respect for women in that environment. I will be respectful, to-the-point and give her whatever she needs. SHe is only doing her job and I'm sure the burden is heavy for BK trustees right now. I appreciate your words of wisdom...

Divorce, let us know when you get your ring back. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Tallberry, yeah, you got it exactly. It's really hard to put that whole thing into words, but you seem to know exactly what I mean. Respectful, to-the-point and complete cooperation are exactly right.

And I also think, as much as I can't possibly explain why in words , that you're actually at *decreased* risk for anything unjustifiable or frivolous from that trustee for the same reason: being found sloppy, dishonest, or at fault to such a woman is unacceptable, as hard as she may be to work with directly. So to me, as much as this seems to be bad news, it may actually be great news.

But now that you've filed, your tendency to panic should drop over time... it did for me, and you already know how up in all the details I am; I'm helplessly perfectionist. Yet the panic level really did subside a LOT in the weeks after filing, and was pretty much non-existent after the 341 and no asset determination. The non-ringing phone helps a lot too: when you don't have people screaming at you every day life gets a great deal more bearable. Anyway, I wish you the best! I know it will work out well for you, it's just getting through everything that's hard. But you will. You made it this far, haven't you?

[tallberry]

Fresh, I swear you should be a counselor...you have helped calm my nerves tremendously. I am an anal-perfectionist, as well, we definitely have that in common. I would say that is why your pro se was such a success (details, details, details)! Well, I guess there is no where to go but up, right? I'll try to get a grip and let this thing unfold organically.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

You're absolutely right: there's nowhere to go but up!

[tallberry]

Thanks Fresh. Since you are pretty familiar with my situation, I 'd like your opinion. Is there any risk of a dismissal just because we spent so much of our tax return? Or if they didn't like something we spent the money on would they attempt to get that money back? We honestly just bought glasses (that was a lot of it), rent, car repairs (tramsmission), groceries (stocked up on meat, frozen food)spent over $400 and we usually spend about $200 a week, gas for the cars, car payment, insurance premium....you get the idea. Not one thing that would be considered a luxury. Your thoughts please?

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Tallberry, my thoughts are exactly the same as they were at the beginning of this discussion a month or two ago, when you first proposed spending the refund prior to filing: you have done nothing at all to worry about. As I recall, it was fairly unanimous. From what you have written recently, nothing has changed between then and now, only that you've done what you planned to do... which I *still* think is okay.

When a person is poor, and then poorer still, you get to a point where even necessities are tremendous luxuries, just because you haven't had them for so long. You can't turn off the penny counter in your head because you've been carefully weighing even the smallest expenditures for ages... and you suspect the trustee's penny counter is the same way yours is. But it's not.

Try turning it around for a minute. If, after everything you have read and learned, this were your best friend's bk and she was asking YOU this question... would you instantly think that glasses were a luxury? Car repairs? Groceries? I'm thinking not. I could be wrong but I'm thinking you would see her expenditures in the same light I'm seeing yours.

If you kept your receipts, don't worry about it. The trustee is looking at the "totality of the circumstances." You may very well be asked where the refund went... okay, so you tell her and then hand her your photocopied receipts. Page after page. That's where it went. In the meantime, she's looking at your abysmally low bank balances over the last year, your income, your expenses, all of it. She will know exactly how poor you are. You won't have to keep proving it. Unless the "totality" of your own "circumstances" screams fraud, you've done due diligence all around with the way you've handled this tax return.

It seems to me -- and I could be wrong, so take it with a grain of salt -- that there's been a lot of debating inside you and inside your own head for a long, long time. As though you had to justify to yourself this step you've taken, in the same way you've had to justify to yourself every penny you spend while you have these debts hanging over your head. It's a natural reaction for many people. If there's any truth to it in your own situation, don't feel bad, but understand that the bk court is not nearly as merciless as the voices in your head.

At a certain point, I had to decide to separate the external from the internal just to stay sane, because I was literally making myself crazy. I'm not saying this is you! But if there's any similarity there, consider making the same decision to examine these fearful thoughts and nip them in the bud so that your energies are free for more productive pursuits. Seems to me we've been over these same questions pretty thoroughly now... please don't take offense, but I'm hoping that at some point you'll either believe me or call me a liar.

[JRScott]

Good Luck , so long as everything is in order you'll be fine

[tallberry]

I believe you Fresh :o) I think that since we have taken the plunge, the word "dismissal" freaks me out a bit. Whenever I read on here someone finally filed and then they get a "cause for dismissal" notice, I get a pit in my stomach for them. Does that make sense? It's like you finally get the guts to do it and then the rug can be pulled out from underneath you. That is were my obsessive questioning comes into play...I've filed and I'm gonna see this think through to the end (even if it kills me!). Thanks Fresh for your patience...I promise, I'll let it rest!
Thanks, JR, for the well wishes. They are much appreciated!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

It's cool -- we've all been there. I just want you to remember that finally, after however long of struggling, you're back in a world that has actual boundaries, where there's an actual stopping point as to how bad it could get. You won't get dismissed without actual cause, I guarantee you. And a notice of dismissal is your friend: it gives you the opportunity to flash all that documentation you've been keeping, and prove whatever specific point is bothering the trustee.

What I told myself when I filed my Ch7 pro se was this: "I've already been through hell and back. Several times. And if I file and get dismissed, the worst that can happen is I refile in six months. Little lost and everything to gain. And any notice I get in the meantime is my friend, because I can use it to win." And that's what I used to keep myself fact-based and realistic when my fears were getting the better of me.

Basically, your only other choice was not to file. You could file or not file. For a while, you chose not to file. Then you filed. To me, this (filing) has to be way better than that (not filing).

So far, the worst that has happened is you got a roundtailed trustee and not a hardbottom, as an old physics teacher of mine used to say. From everything you've written, you have a really strong case. It's going to take more than you think to dismiss you.

I don't mind answering your posts, Tallberry! If it eases your fears any and helps you to stay grounded and focused during this time, it's worth every effort. I just want you to see that you really ARE in a different world now, there are limits and boundaries as to how far you can fall (not far!!!) and the end of all this -- a GOOD end -- is near. You're not going to have to suffer much longer. Just keep your head together and you'll be fine.

[tallberry]

Spoken like a true survivor, Fresh. I am so thankful for you and everyone else here...I would have never made it this far. Now that I am thinking more rationally today...I am happy I have a "roundtailed" trustee. I am putting together a detailed and organized binder with copies of every single thing she may (or may not) ask for...that will go with me to the 341 meeting. Hopefully she will recognize that I am taking this very seriously. At any rate, Thank you for helping me get centered again (big hug).

[FreshLikeADaisy]

You're such a sweetie! Hugs back.