PA filing end of May beginning of June

[pa308]

My attorney will finally be filing for me probably June 1. I wanted to try to hold off til then due to 1,000 that I repaid my mother in law in May 07.

When my wife and I met with him this past week to go over some papers the paralegal explained the filing as such.

They would send in the petition on June 1.
From then they would have 30 days to file the schedules. My 341 would be 30 days from that date (i.e. August 1).

Does this sound right? Most of what I have read here indicates that the 341 is 30 days from the filing date, not 60.

I thought I read somewhere that you have 15 days from filing to get the schedules in, not 30.

I have confidence in my attorney, maybe I heard something incorrectly and need to clarify with him, but I thought I would run it by here to get opinions.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Pa, you're right; it's 15 days to get your papers in when you do an incomplete ("emergency") petition, and the 341 is usually within 30 days of filing. Sometimes it's later, especially if there are holidays in the interim or a very busy district, but generally speaking the 341 is 3-4 weeks after you file.

I guess what I'm really wondering is why, if you're waiting until June 1 to file, they can't have your schedules, etc done by that date as well. In other words, given a whole month to work on it, what's stopping them from filing a complete petition the first time around? Just curious.

Good luck!!!

[pa308]

The paralegal said that you can request an extension for an additional 15 days. Now I'm trying not to stress as we get closer to actually filing but as I think about your question Fresh, this is kinda pissing me off.

If they're filing an extension, in my opinion only because they probably have a lot of filings, Am I wrong to be upset? I want to say listen you have everything that you asked of from me including my money to file, why are you filing for extensions.

On the other hand i dont want to piss off my lawyer and have a shoddy filing

Maybe I should just go with the flow....no ones suing me yet

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Well... the fact is you don't "file for an extension". Sorry. The way it works is that there is a certain basic shortlist of docs that MUST be filed the day you open the case. If the court receives everything on that shortlist but not the entire filing including schedules and all required forms, the *assumption* is made that yours is an emergency filing, and thus you are already entitled by law to get the remaining docs in within 15 days of filing your original petition. In other words, you don't ask anyone for a thing, you just file the bare minimum to open the case and then make damn sure you submit all the rest within 15 days.

In other words, your paralegal is quite misinformed. I would be kinda pissed too, but it's not a big deal yet. What you might want to do is approach your attorney personally (phone, email, whatever -- bypassing Suzy Paralegal entirely) and just say, "Look, from what your paralegal told me (and repeat it) I am really starting to become quite concerned. Is there some special issue with my case that requires the filing of an emergency petition? When you use the words "emergency petition", that should be enough to let the atty know that you understand what one is and entails (which you do! we just covered it in full ) and you should then get a straighter response from him.

In other words, you're taking the position of, "What's the emergency that requires an emergency petition?" which is an entirely valid, legally correct question that bypasses all that paralegal bs. I have known people like her in IT, and basically they're so used to baffling the untrained masses with technical BS just to get them to put up and shut up that they have no clue when they are making an ass of themselves in front of someone who actually knows. I say bypass all that and go play "worried and concerned" for the attorney directly.

You may think of something better, but that's how I'd play it. Good luck!!!

[pa308]

Thanks Fresh, I will ask exactly that.

I fell like I am doing everything that I am supposed to do and at d-day this seems odd. Paid $X a month for six months, got all the docs they requested together, kept all my ing receipts for every little thing I bought.

Another thing is I really want to get this over with and move on with my life. It's like it's going to drag on just a little further but who knows what can happen in those extra days.......a promotion (may be a possibility)..........death in family.......hit the lottery...

That and the fact that if I/they file June 1 and go emergency then extension on top of it, it doesnt sound like my 341 would be until August (the clock wouldnt start ticking til then??)

Sorry for the rant

I will let you know what he says...Thanks for your input

On a positive note, I got my stimulus deposit today

[pa308]

Got response back from attorney..."That is our normal procedure do not worry"

Oh well, in for a pound at this point........

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Well, go with what you've got.

However, regardless of how ignorant his paralegal is, the place where the rubber meets the road is in the filing itself. I hope you have a PACER acct, because when they tell you your case has been filed and can give you a case #, then you go pull it all down from PACER to your hard drive and study it very carefully to make sure it's correct and accurately reflects all the information you so carefully gave them. That right there will help relax you for sure, when you know it's in and has been done right.

Also, get your post-filing debt ed class out of the way as soon as you can after your case is filed, so you know it's done and you don't have to worry about derailing your bk on a technicality like forgetting that one chore.

Good luck to you!!! And kudos for catching those errors in what you were told!!!

[pa308]

Thanks fresh. can the post ed be done before the 341 ie right after filing?

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Yep, it sure can. I filed bk on a Friday and had it done the following Monday. I don't expect you to match my speed or anything, it's just that I wanted to get it out of the way asap so it wouldn't be hanging over my head. At the time, I was having all sorts of wake-up-in-the-middle-of-the-night-in-a-cold-sweat fears about bk and what I had forgotten or messed up or whatever (I was pro se), hence the rush. But you don't have to do it *that* fast if you don't want to.

Good luck with everything!!!

[pa308]

Well, go with what you've got.

I hope you have a PACER acct, because when they tell you your case has been filed and can give you a case #, then you go pull it all down from PACER to your hard drive and study it very carefully to make sure it's correct and accurately reflects all the information you so carefully gave them. That right there will help relax you for sure, when you know it's in and has been done right.

Also, get your post-filing debt ed class out of the way as soon as you can after your case is filed, so you know it's done and you don't have to worry about derailing your bk on a technicality like forgetting that one chore.

Good luck to you!!! And kudos for catching those errors in what you were told!!!

Hi Fresh, I'm filed and have a 341 date of 7/25.

I now have a pacer account. Is it just the voluntary petition I pull down to review? Atty said they would send me copies of my schedules, Should I wait for those or pull them down from PACER? Looking at what I see on there, I am noticing things I dont like.
Didnt list what I pay monthy for health/dental ins etc.
Has me down for 850/mo for food (family of 4 in PA seems high)
Has my kids down as 18 year olds r/t 8. (maybe thats where the 850 in food goes
Cell phone listed a little higher than my actual bill.

So these things I know I need him to fix. I'm sure there are some things on there that he lists due to attorny knowledge of how courts work, so I guess I need to put some faith in him, but I'm a little disappointed on having to amend already

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Pa, pull down *everything* posted and save it to your hard drive so that it is immediately accessible to you. If you go to the docket report page in PACER, it will have all of your filings chronologically listed; when you save them to your own pc take a second to rename each file because it will save you a ton of confusion. For instance, give the first doc a name like "01_VoluntaryPetition.pdf", the second a name like "02_StmtOfSSN.pdf", and so forth. You'll always know what it is at a glance, when it was filed, and if you have more than 10 docs filed your list won't move #11 to the beginning (as it would if you just do "1, 2, 3" instead of "01, 02, 03"). Saves a TON of hassle!

Now, since he has already filed, you're going to have to pick your battles on correcting the mistakes, because they should have already been fixed prior to filing and will now require a formal amendment. So if there's nothing *really* too far off, wait until the 341 and see if the trustee likes it as is. But if there's a glaring error -- he said you spend $2000 on food a month instead of $200, for instance -- that's well worth the hassle of an amendment PRIOR to the 341. So make a list of all the mistakes, and the corrections you would make, and decide from there how you'd like to proceed. Keep the list handy for the 341, just in case you get asked about screwy numbers. Good luck!!!

[pa308]

Thanks Fresh,

To me listing my twins as 18 y.o. rather than 8 seems glaring. As does 850/month for food. I assume the atty/paralegal worked the numbers to get me down to 10/month disposable. In reality if he had listed the 300/mo for health and dental insurance, 550 for food for a family of five would have been right around where I listed it.

If I'm going to make him amend to change one thing, shouldnt I make him amend to change everything that I think needs fixed?

I hear that one question the trustee will ask is whether you have reviewed the schedules, and I don't think I'll feel comfortable saying yes, then having him ask about my "teenagers".

Man I feel like a dumb %^$# for signing the docs before seeing them, please any newbies learn from my mistake

Does amending create a whole new set of schedules?

[rrockinggramma]

definitely change the age but if he listed your food higher and some of your monthly expenses higher, don't sweat it.

[pa308]

Thanks rockinggramma.

I'm just concerned that if they want receipts to see 850 in food I cannot come up with that. I think the national standards for food for a family of 4 is only 752.00. I believe I had advised him 450-500.

How will it look to the trustee or any creditors if we need to amend many items.

Man I cant wait til this whole ugly episode of our life is over.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Pa, take a look at what needs to be changed, while keeping in mind that there are different forms involved. In general, you amend (resubmit) a single entire form or schedule. So personally, if I saw an error on a schedule, for instance, and decided to do an amendment, I'd redo the whole schedule and correct everything on it... but not necessarily other forms with smaller errors. In other words, if I had to redo a form, I would recalculate the entire form while I was at it and not just correct the one glaring error on it. Similarly, just because I corrected Schedule J and my Means Test (for instance) doesn't mean I would also amend a typo on my Statement of Financial Affairs. Does that make sense?

Don't worry about multiple form amendments, but do submit them all at once. Multiple amendments of the SAME form can raise questions. And insist on seeing them BEFORE they are filed: you wouldn't be the first person to submit corrections to their attorney, only to have the atty submit amendments that contain even more mistakes than the original! Many times it's the paralegal's fault, but still... insist that you must see them before they are filed, no exceptions.

Those are my thoughts on it, anyway. Good luck!!!