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    #1

    Make rent payment?

    Not sure if my girlfriend is gonna file for BK7 but should she make rent payments to me just incase? She is helping with the bills, food ect. I just want to make sure if/when she has to take the means test she is within range.

    She owns a house that we are tring to sell through a "short sale" but not sure if they will allow her to use those payments (which she isn't making) on the test?

    This is for Ohio.

    Thanks.
    Tags: None
    #2
    If she does file BK, she could be asked to document whatever expenses she uses on the means test (housing, utilities, transportation, etc.). It would be ideal for her name to be on a lease agreement and other statements, but if that's not possible (i.e., if you own your home and she contributes to the expenses as needed), she could write checks to you with things like "Aug. '08 rent" in the memo line, "Aug. '08 utilities", etc. and keep these copies. In fact, it would be a good idea for her to save every receipt, statement, document related to her finances if there's a chance she'll be filing in a few months.

    As for the mortgage payment on the means test, a good attorney in her area should have a feel for what is allowed in her district. She might check the BK court's website in her district and browse through some memorandum decisions to get a feel for how the mortgage/housing expenses are treated in her area.

    Comment

      #3
      There is always talk of documenting every receipt and/or expenditure. Has anyone ever had to produce these at their 341 or ask to send it post 341? I am starting to wonder what urban legends are out there about 341 meetings. Occasionally we see the complete idiots that lied, forged and stole before they filed, and I guarantee only a few of them get caught. In reality Chapter 7 is a an absolute cake walk. I can honestly say in the 15 years I have been a BK Paralegal and the thousands of BK's I have been involved in, I have rarely and I mean rarely seen a Trustee ask for random crap except for when a case has assets above the exemption line. That is how a Trustee makes money, they don't give a crap how you pay your rent etc. as long as your numbers fit in the Means Test without someone giggling after they read it. Stop the Paranoia!

      Good Luck
      Disclaimer: I am not an actor on TV, but I play a BK Paralegal in real life. Nothing I say should be construed as legal advice, or really anything but entertainment. Please seek out professional help.

      Comment

        #4
        Thanks for the replys!

        She had an apartment from August of last year until July of this before she moved out to my house.

        BKParalegal, I see your point how they would only be interested in seeing certain items. I just want to make sure she has no more problems

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by BKParalegal View Post
          There is always talk of documenting every receipt and/or expenditure. Has anyone ever had to produce these at their 341 or ask to send it post 341? I am starting to wonder what urban legends are out there about 341 meetings. Occasionally we see the complete idiots that lied, forged and stole before they filed, and I guarantee only a few of them get caught. In reality Chapter 7 is a an absolute cake walk. I can honestly say in the 15 years I have been a BK Paralegal and the thousands of BK's I have been involved in, I have rarely and I mean rarely seen a Trustee ask for random crap except for when a case has assets above the exemption line. That is how a Trustee makes money, they don't give a crap how you pay your rent etc. as long as your numbers fit in the Means Test without someone giggling after they read it. Stop the Paranoia!

          Good Luck
          It wasn't paranoia in our case, it was a reality! Go back and read through my posts about the documentation we were required to produce. In summary, it was documentation that detailed our entire financial life for a year.

          Have you never encountered the UST's additional documentation list that is frequently given during random audits? Luckily, I had all of the documentation and was able to rebut abuse. It may not happen in your district, but it does happen.

          To the OP, which would you rather your girlfriend have... too much documentation or too little?

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by BKParalegal View Post
            There is always talk of documenting every receipt and/or expenditure. Has anyone ever had to produce these at their 341 or ask to send it post 341? I am starting to wonder what urban legends are out there about 341 meetings. Occasionally we see the complete idiots that lied, forged and stole before they filed, and I guarantee only a few of them get caught. In reality Chapter 7 is a an absolute cake walk. I can honestly say in the 15 years I have been a BK Paralegal and the thousands of BK's I have been involved in, I have rarely and I mean rarely seen a Trustee ask for random crap except for when a case has assets above the exemption line. That is how a Trustee makes money, they don't give a crap how you pay your rent etc. as long as your numbers fit in the Means Test without someone giggling after they read it. Stop the Paranoia!

            Good Luck
            I humbly disagree with the premise of this post, although it may very well be based in facts. A vast majority of chapter 7s are an absolute "cake walk", but there are some that are not. And it is not neccecarily "complete idiots" that are asked for some type of recipts (and yes i did just misquote you..lol). I think if you spend a little time searching the forum you will see examples of people that are asked to prove certian expenses, and you will even come across cases where everything "hit the fan". I think you are knowledgable and have alot to contribute to the forum, but I do not feel this contribution is merely, "BK is easy, stop worrying" (If this was all anyone needed then it would be a banner and not a forum )
            I would bet that you have a literal TON of knowledge( yes knowledge can be weighed by the metric ton-tonne) about actual occurences in BK (as opposed to nonoccurences), I challenge you to throw more of these out there.
            Lastly, a little tact might be in order, which is funny coming from me as I am the King of tactless statements (9 out of 10 professors surveyed said my biggest problem is a lack thereof!). In fact, I think asking someone to respond tactfully may well be tactless.

            EDIT: Nevermind, I seriously just got an email from a classmate in a group project asking me to show more tact when communicating with the group. eh
            Last edited by Priceless ProSe; 08-02-2008, 12:19 AM.
            Not only am I not a lawyer, the California BAR association has sent me numerous letters telling me not to even THINK about going to law school. In fact, the lay advice I provide is not even good. In the end remember, you get what you pay for, and here in BK land were not the best at paying.

            Comment

              #7
              Also, I think it is the nature of BK for people to be worried and scared (especially Pro se peoples). And asking us to calm down is like asking George Bush to love the muslims. I think extreme preparation is a means of compensating, and its not harmful unless it becomes obsessive. Probably the thing most of us learn from all this preparation is that it wasnt neccecary, but perhaps beneficial in keeping our sanity and educating us in the BK process.
              Not only am I not a lawyer, the California BAR association has sent me numerous letters telling me not to even THINK about going to law school. In fact, the lay advice I provide is not even good. In the end remember, you get what you pay for, and here in BK land were not the best at paying.

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by BKParalegal View Post
                There is always talk of documenting every receipt and/or expenditure. Has anyone ever had to produce these at their 341 or ask to send it post 341? I am starting to wonder what urban legends are out there about 341 meetings. Occasionally we see the complete idiots that lied, forged and stole before they filed, and I guarantee only a few of them get caught. In reality Chapter 7 is a an absolute cake walk. I can honestly say in the 15 years I have been a BK Paralegal and the thousands of BK's I have been involved in, I have rarely and I mean rarely seen a Trustee ask for random crap except for when a case has assets above the exemption line. That is how a Trustee makes money, they don't give a crap how you pay your rent etc. as long as your numbers fit in the Means Test without someone giggling after they read it. Stop the Paranoia!

                Good Luck
                Read the posts about my case. Read the posts about Help's case. There is no urban legend info there. I forget the exact poundage of info that was requested prior to my 341, but it was more than just a couple of ounces. How familiar are you with Rule 2004 examinations. I have been there done, done that. No urban legend there. There is a huge, huge difference between paranoia and caution armed with knowledge. The fact that you rarely see something doesn't mean it isn't there. Now, all of that said, I did sit through about 15 341 meetings (waiting for ours that ended up being last on the roll call) and only about 5 did not have some sort of complication. The rest were complicated because of the case, or because of an inept attorney, or because of ill-prepared debtors exuding a high degree of nervousness. They are not as much of a walk in the park as you suggest.

                Comment

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