help, unusual question

[4kats]

[FloridaGirl]

Can't you get records from the Doctor who did your surgery? That is proof that it was done.

[4kats]

Can't you get records from the Doctor who did your surgery? That is proof that it was done.

thank you for your reply
I have a reciept for the amount we paid, but it just says "cosmetic surgery" on it.
so it makes it sound like it was just for cosmetic reasons, which i guess technically it is since a deformity really isnt "necessary" to have fixed.
i guess i could have him write a letter stating i had a deformity. i just really didnt want to let anyone know about it if i did not have to.

i am more concerned about the date we paid, july 21. i know that there has to be a certain amount of time like 60 days before you file that you were not supposed to use your credit cards. so i just didnt know if spending a huge sum of money like that right before we file BK would look awful.
there is no way for them to know we spent the money unless they audited our bank records from the other bank that we had closed the account at. then they might wonder where the heck the 15k went

we have been with the same bank now since feb, and those bank records wouldnt show anything odd.

like i said i dont want to hide anything, its just something i'd rather not tell them unless i needed to. my husband is the only one who knows about the surgery, my family doesnt even know.

[hhou812hh]

thank you for your reply
I have a reciept for the amount we paid, but it just says "cosmetic surgery" on it.
so it makes it sound like it was just for cosmetic reasons, which i guess technically it is since a deformity really isnt "necessary" to have fixed.
i guess i could have him write a letter stating i had a deformity. i just really didnt want to let anyone know about it if i did not have to.

i am more concerned about the date we paid, july 21. i know that there has to be a certain amount of time like 60 days before you file that you were not supposed to use your credit cards. so i just didnt know if spending a huge sum of money like that right before we file BK would look awful.
there is no way for them to know we spent the money unless they audited our bank records from the other bank that we had closed the account at. then they might wonder where the heck the 15k went

we have been with the same bank now since feb, and those bank records wouldnt show anything odd.

like i said i dont want to hide anything, its just something i'd rather not tell them unless i needed to. my husband is the only one who knows about the surgery, my family doesnt even know.

It shouldn't matter on what you spent it on as long as it was spent and you have real proof that it was spent (IE; you can't hide this in the mattress). If you have no proof, then that would be a problem. One of the things in bk law that can cause a case to be dismissed is a debtors failure to explain a loss of an asset. In your case the 15k is the asset and as long as this reciept is for real you should be fine.

As for paying it on july 21 and you filing soon you would have to list in your financial affairs schedule what bills were paid for $600 or more within 90 days prior to filing. You would have to list this. I'm not sure if this would be considered a preferential transfer or not. Usually any medical payments over $600 are but you received the service when you paid. At the very worst if it is a preferential payment then the ch7 trustee would get the 15k back from them and distribute it among all insecured creditors and it won't affect your bk.

Tell your lawyer EVERYTHING! That's what you are paying for if you use one. They can advise the best way.

[babycakes]

Did you put anything on any credit in the last 60-90 days? If this 'cosmetic' surgery was paid for in cash and you didn't charge part of it, I wouldn't mention it. I had a 'cosmetic' surgery in May. I paid for it in Feb at my pre-op visit and when I went to court, the question of had I paid anyone over $600 in the last 3 months, the timeframe had already passed so I didn't lie. And I didn't charge it. I paid for it in cash that I got from my tax return. I did tell my atty and he said not to worry, the 60-90 days had passed. I filed in July and am 2 wks post 341, so I'm in the limbo phase. No problems so far.

[hhou812hh]

Did you put anything on any credit in the last 60-90 days? If this 'cosmetic' surgery was paid for in cash and you didn't charge part of it, I wouldn't mention it. I had a 'cosmetic' surgery in May. I paid for it in Feb at my pre-op visit and when I went to court, the question of had I paid anyone over $600 in the last 3 months, the timeframe had already passed so I didn't lie. And I didn't charge it. I paid for it in cash that I got from my tax return. I did tell my atty and he said not to worry, the 60-90 days had passed. I filed in July and am 2 wks post 341, so I'm in the limbo phase. No problems so far.

If 4kats wants to file under the current law she would have to list it since it was paid July 21st. The last day to file under current law is Oct 14th. It will have been paid inside the 90 days. I would mention it no matter how it was paid so it doesn't look like fraud or perjury. Paying so much in cash may raise a flag. Just my opinion though, a lawyer would best answer this one.

[4kats]

thank you both for your responses

from what i had read, the $600 rule was talking about paying creditors and bills you owed. i didnt see anything asking if you have spent more than $600 in the last 90 days.
maybe i misunderstood it. they couldnt get the money back from my doctor, i went in to his office and this was purely elective. i had to pay first, then i got the surgery.
again, thank you both for your responses!

[hhou812hh]

thank you both for your responses

from what i had read, the $600 rule was talking about paying creditors and bills you owed. i didnt see anything asking if you have spent more than $600 in the last 90 days.
maybe i misunderstood it. they couldnt get the money back from my doctor, i went in to his office and this was purely elective. i had to pay first, then i got the surgery.
again, thank you both for your responses!

The below link (line 3) is where you must list it. I too have to made a large payment around the same time and must list it. I actually wrote a check for 12,500 to my local car dealer for a new car. 2500 was used for a down payment and 10k paid the old loan off for the trade in. Since the old loan was secured and the car I just bought was received upon payment this doesn't constitue a preferential transfer.

Your situation can go either way which is why a lawyer may help. Doctors are usually considered unsecured creditors even though you paid up front so I honestly don't know. Again if the trustee takes the money from the cosmetic surgeon this won't affect you. Hopefully the surgeon isn't a friend or relative or they may be your enemy if they lose the money.

http://www.uscourts.gov/bkforms/official/b7.pdf