Still confused on roommates

[willowhare]

OK, I'm still confused on the issue of roommates and the means test. I have 3 roommates, and we share some expenses (utilities, food). I claim none of them as dependents. Under the "heads on pillows" rule, I can claim a household of 4. But some places I see that you can only claim people in your household whom you also claim as dependents with the IRS or spouses.

Even if I claim a household of 4, there still may be a problem. While I would make it easily under the means test, there still is the matter of Schedule J with my actual expenses. Since I'm not paying everyone's total expenses, my personal expenses would then fall way under the IRS standard deductions. I'm afraid the trustee will notice that, accuse me of abuse and force me into a chapter 13. When not paying my unsecured debts, I do have some extra income at the end of the month (about $300). I would like to put that aside for car repairs and dental care in the future (I have an old car and bad teeth) and maybe a house downpayment 5+ years down the road.

To make things even more complicated, one of my roommates just lost his job, and I've been taking on more of the household's financial responsibilities until he gets back on his feet.

Sorry if I'm babbling but I'm starting to get really scared. Can anyone help me?

[HHM]

There is no such thing as a heads on pillow rules for non-familial relations. You are a household of one.

Roommates are easy...basically, on schedule J, you cannot claim the "full" expense for an item that is a shared expense. Thus, if the apartments electric bill is $200 per month, but you only pay 1/4 of that, your expenses for Electricity on Schedule J is $50.

You can amortize larger expenses on a monthly basis, so, if in a year, you incur about $1200 in car repairs, you would claim a $120 automobile maintenance on Schedule J (even though you don't really spend $120 per month).

[willowhare]

Ellringer ruling

OK, HHM, I'm still confused. What about the 2007 Ellringer ruling in Minnesota? There, a judge said bankruptcy should use the definition of "household" used by the Census Bureau. That states the a household is all the people, related and unrelated, that occupy a domicile.

The Ellringer ruling says that while we can count roommates as household members, but we must add what they contribute to the bills as income on the means test.

However, I've hear other people say that household members must be also claimed as spouses or dependents on tax returns.

Does the Ellringer ruling only effect cases in Minnesota (I'm in Illinois).

I was hoping to file pro se, but now I don't know.

[wonkettegirl]

Willowhare, do you make below the median for purposes of filing a chapter 7 as a single (household of 1) person? I highly doubt that the bankruptcy court would see 4 adult, working, individuals as a "household of 4" for purposes of median income. None of you are "responsible" for the others in any legal sense.

[d80indebt]

Thanks for pointing out re Ellringer, 2007 WL 1976750 (Bkrtcy.D. Minn. 2007) (Robert J. Kressel, J.)

It states:
So, basically... heads on pillows...

And you would include their REGULAR contributions toward your income.

I'm in Minnesota, so you can be sure I will be using this argument.

[willowhare]

Wonkette, I do make it under

for a single filer by about $100, even when when I do include the contributions my roommates make to the household bills.

If I don't include those contributions as income, I'm under by about $1,000.

[HHM]

The practical result is the same, you list your REAL expenses on Schedule J. Thus, when it comes to roomates, if you share expenses, you list only your portion of those expenses, if you have money left over, guess what, you are in chapter 13 land, regardless if you pass or fail the means test.

[willowhare]

but if I filed as a 4-person household

That would up the amount allowed for some of the Schedule J expenses under the IRS guidelines. On some of the expenses (food and utilities) that would actually be a bit more realistic, since I am paying for more of the utilities right now while my housemate looks for work.