Chase Bank Adversary / Reaf

[MixerDriver08]

Hello all Just figured I'd pick your collective brains....

Got a letter from Chase Bank regarding my wifes credit card account that we included in the Bankruptcy... Basically it's from a law firm trying to get us to reaffirm some of it. Now it had been 120 + days from the last charge till we filed. We bought a wood stove to heat our house like 5 months before we filed made a few payments and realized how bad off we were financially. That's when we began to look at our options of which bankruptcy was the only one. sorry I'm getting a little off subject...
Anyhow they said a lot of stuff in the letter about how we purposely went out and ran up the card (which we didn't) and that we should reaffirm now or face an adversary proceeding blah blah blah. Is this common to strong arm us like that? I'm not reaffirming anything. They can come get the heater if they really want too. we are talking about $4000 here Are they really going to spend the money on legal fees to collect this $4000 they won't have much after they pay the attorney. And if I win the adversary proceeding don't they have to pay my legal fees?
Thanks guys for any input I appreciate it . I won't see my lawyer till next Monday but am curious on your take.

[HHM]

Well, you are somewhat on the sweet spot for Adversaries (AP's). The debt is high enough and still relatively close to your filing date that I am not surprised that Chase has made an appearance. Don't assume it costs Chase anything to file the AP; the attorney is working on commission, the only out of pocket expenses is the filing fee.

You can probably call their bluff and see if they file an AP. But you will need your attorney to assess the legal sufficiency of their claim.

1. Were you insolvent at the time you purchased the Stove.
2. Did you make minimum payments, how many?
3. When did you consult with your attorney
etc.

[MixerDriver08]

HMM we were Solvent had a good job lots of overtime. Wife was just coming off of (paid) maternity leave. Made first payment no problem. Daycare started back up for our 3 children made big dent in the budget but still reasonable. Electric bill wentup still scraping by....started getting less overtime at work...Uh oh (Houston we have a problem)then food and fuel spiked (big big problem) paid the necessities at that point talked to a lawyer middle to end of October and filed end of november. I just want to be done with the whole mess at this point I think the total they say they want is $6400 not sure where they arrived at that number because the wood stove was $4200... anyway, of that $6400 they say they would settle for $5100 at 0% $125/month Just don't know until I talk to my lawyer what I'll do $125/month at this time is tough, maybe negotiate lower settlement.... fight it I don't know.

[2Bshinyandnew]

HMM we were Solvent had a good job lots of overtime. Wife was just coming off of (paid) maternity leave. Made first payment no problem. Daycare started back up for our 3 children made big dent in the budget but still reasonable. Electric bill wentup still scraping by....started getting less overtime at work...Uh oh (Houston we have a problem)then food and fuel spiked (big big problem) paid the necessities at that point talked to a lawyer middle to end of October and filed end of november. I just want to be done with the whole mess at this point I think the total they say they want is $6400 not sure where they arrived at that number because the wood stove was $4200... anyway, of that $6400 they say they would settle for $5100 at 0% $125/month Just don't know until I talk to my lawyer what I'll do $125/month at this time is tough, maybe negotiate lower settlement.... fight it I don't know.

Had Chase filed and been granted permission to lift the automatic stay? I thought a creditor could not contact you directly unless they filed a motion and the court approved lifting the automatic stay?

[MixerDriver08]

No They sent it to the lawyer who forwarded it to me and told me to make an appt to see him next Monday just getting input from the forum because i will obsess about it till next Monday.

[2Bshinyandnew]

I would say call their bluff. You have nothing to gain by reaffirming. Even If they file an adversarial proceeding and win (which is highly unlikely given the facts you have presented) you won't be worse off than if you do nothing/call their bluff. The letter is an inexpensive way to make a last ditch effort to get you to pay them something. You consulted an attorney in October, filed in November and bought a heater for your home months before your initial consult. It would be highly unlikely they could prove fraud.

Keep us posted, and stay warm! I think you'll be okay with this.

[MixerDriver08]

Yeah I'm sure we will be ok Thanks for the reassuring words. I've calmed down since I wrote the initial post. This charge on that chase account was always in the back of our minds as a possibility because of the amount. If worse comes to worse we'll negotiate for less hopefully 50 cents on the dollar. But we'll see. My attorney has been excellant so far and has a very real hatred of the credit card companies but he's also a realist so I do value and trust his oppinion...so we'll see what he says on Monday .

[biotechsolution]

Check to see how much you attorney will charge. Fighting an AP can be quite
expensive...a couple thousand. I don't think you can get Chase to cover your legal fees.

[banca rotta]

Not that this matters now but you couldn't wait to file? Waiting would have made all the difference in the world.

[Dst1]

My opinion it's a bluff. The creditor can object but doesn't really have a leg to stand on. ut of course, see your attorney.

[MixerDriver08]

Kinda water under the bridge at this point don't ya think banca? point taken though. We made a few mistakes that is probably one of them. They are however including some charges that were 8 months before the filing. I honestly chalk a lot of it up to the fact that these banks are in a serious pinch. They know that most of us will settle vs going the court route...and honestly in the long run they'll get their money no matter what... they're pockets are a lot deeper than mine.

[2Bshinyandnew]

Not that this matters now but you couldn't wait to file? Waiting would have made all the difference in the world.

Is a wood stove a luxury item? According to the OP the purchase was made 4 months before filing, and well before the initial attorney consult.

Even if it cost $1500 to $2000 to litigate an AP, it would be very difficult to prove fraud under the facts presented and the cost to litigate would still be less than the $$$ Chase is trying to squeeze out of the OP. If it were me, I'd call their bluff, and if Chase still intended on moving forward with an AP, I would fight it...it's a bump in the road, for sure, but ultimately it may still be cheaper to fight it.

[MixerDriver08]

I hear ya 2B We'll see what the Atty says Monday. Like I said he really despises credit card companies.

[banca rotta]

Kinda water under the bridge at this point don't ya think banca? point taken though. We made a few mistakes that is probably one of them. They are however including some charges that were 8 months before the filing. I honestly chalk a lot of it up to the fact that these banks are in a serious pinch. They know that most of us will settle vs going the court route...and honestly in the long run they'll get their money no matter what... they're pockets are a lot deeper than mine.

True. Didn't mean to sound like a wise ass just hate seeing those trying to seek a fresh start still in debt with possible bigger legal fees fighting the AP over somthing so avoidable.

Good luck at whatever you do.

[banca rotta]

Is a wood stove a luxury item? According to the OP the purchase was made 4 months before filing, and well before the initial attorney consult.

Even if it cost $1500 to $2000 to litigate an AP, it would be very difficult to prove fraud under the facts presented and the cost to litigate would still be less than the $$$ Chase is trying to squeeze out of the OP. If it were me, I'd call their bluff, and if Chase still intended on moving forward with an AP, I would fight it...it's a bump in the road, for sure, but ultimately it may still be cheaper to fight it.

Doesn't matter luxury or not. The creditor's attorney feels the OP made a purchase with no intent to pay. Probably wasn't the case but the OP will have to tell it to the judge and let the judge decide.

Doesn't matter what you and I think.